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Old April 10 2011, 09:27 PM   #16
C.E. Evans
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

I think he was very Human.
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Old April 10 2011, 09:41 PM   #17
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

All I can say is that he gave us Star Trek and assembled a group of people that helped to make it great.

I didn't know the man personally, but it seems he was a deplorable human being.
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Old April 10 2011, 10:20 PM   #18
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I didn't know the man personally, but it seems he was a deplorable human being.
Who did he torture and murder?
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Old April 10 2011, 10:28 PM   #19
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Never met him so I can't comment on what he was like on a personal level, but I'm glad that he brought Star Trek to the screen.
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Old April 10 2011, 11:44 PM   #20
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
For example, I've heard D.C. Fontana's original script for "Encounter at Farpoint" was much better than the version filmed, which was rewritten by Roddenberry.
Erm, you heard incorrectly. It was decided to expand the script from a 90 min premiere to two hours by Roddenberry adding the character of Q, and the trial of humanity. Q is arguably the most popular recurring villain in TNG.

I felt it was odd he didn't want to include any of the alien species from TOS.
No, he argued in early press releases, and in the writers' room, that the galaxy was a really, really big place. Which it is. Since the intention, in "Farpoint", was to go beyond the tiny amount of explored space on an extended mission, in a ship that didn't need to keep returning to Federation space, Roddenberry didn't want Starfleet running into familiar races in places where they shouldn't be yet. TOS had also had a very famous Vulcan, so GR suggested that race should only appear in cameos in the early TNG episodes.

VOY and ENT had ships that kept finding familiar races in unexpected places and many fans derided those stories.

The Bolians were created for no other reason than a script asking for an Andorian and Roddenberry not wanting one, so they made him this new species instead.
No, that was show-runner Rick Berman, reiterating Roddenberry's earlier suggestion to not keep revisiting old, familiar aliens. In addition, it was Berman's belief that Andorians were "hokey, 60s sci-fi aliens", and he didn't change his mind until miniaturization of electronics had made moving antennae possible for Season One of ENT.

Roddenberry had no problem with Andorians. There were five of them in ST:TMP, although Fred Phillips redesigned the antennae as smaller, tapered, forehead tendril-like antennae.

On TNG, it was Rick Berman who told Tracy Tormé, "We don't do antennae on this show."

It seems they (Rick Berman and someone else who's name currently escapes me) practically had to smuggle the character of Worf past Roddenberry, because he was so much against using a Klingon on the show.
No, Worf was originally supposed to be little more than a cameo in "Farpoint", to show us that the Klingons and UFP were at peace. Michael Dorn turned out to be such a good actor that they hastily made the character a regular.
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Old April 10 2011, 11:55 PM   #21
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Merky wrote: View Post
Granted that he left the show in S3 because he wasn't getting his way and he was pretty much replaced.... It shows that he didn't really care much for ST at the time to continue fighting for it... or he considered it not worth the headache. Or maybe, perhaps, he saw the show dying and decided to focus on new endeavors.
He told NBC that if they gave him the early evening, Monday prime time slot he wanted for ST's third season, that he'd stay on as producer. NBC accepted that deal, then they switched ST back to an even later timeslot - on Fridays, when the young, core audience was out enjoying the end of their university week. Having threatened to walk, he carried out that threat. The show was not "dying" at the end of Season Two, although NBC wasn't happy with its ratings and wanted to try a better timeslot. The final episode of TOS for that year was a backdoor pilot for another TV series, "Assignment: Earth".

Whatever the case maybe, he was quick to jump back on that wagon train to the stars when it started becoming lucrative.
No, he turned down involvement with TNG several times, IIRC, but Paramount was going to make a new series with GR's involvement or not. Paramount wanted his return to active involvement as part of the media hype.
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Old April 11 2011, 01:11 AM   #22
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
For example, I've heard D.C. Fontana's original script for "Encounter at Farpoint" was much better than the version filmed, which was rewritten by Roddenberry.
Erm, you heard incorrectly. It was decided to expand the script from a 90 min premiere to two hours by Roddenberry adding the character of Q, and the trial of humanity. Q is arguably the most popular recurring villain in TNG.
He may well be, but that doesn't make the script any better. The parts of Encounter dealing with the local aliens are fairly unremarkable, but the terrible stilted dialogue of the "Q" sections is only made tolerable by a couple of excellent actors. So I don't know that Kai is incorrect at all.
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Old April 11 2011, 01:52 AM   #23
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Merky wrote: View Post
Granted that he left the show in S3 because he wasn't getting his way and he was pretty much replaced.... It shows that he didn't really care much for ST at the time to continue fighting for it... or he considered it not worth the headache. Or maybe, perhaps, he saw the show dying and decided to focus on new endeavors.
He told NBC that if they gave him the early evening, Monday prime time slot he wanted for ST's third season, that he'd stay on as producer. NBC accepted that deal, then they switched ST back to an even later timeslot - on Fridays, when the young, core audience was out enjoying the end of their university week. Having threatened to walk, he carried out that threat. The show was not "dying" at the end of Season Two, although NBC wasn't happy with its ratings and wanted to try a better timeslot. The final episode of TOS for that year was a backdoor pilot for another TV series, "Assignment: Earth".
He still walked off and the show suffered in writing and in production. S3 is by far the worst season quality wise compared to the other two seasons and had Gene been there the quality probably would not have suffered as it did.

You don't sacrifice your show because you didn't get what you wanted. You fight through and work with what you got. I wouldn't call that commendable at all.

No, he turned down involvement with TNG several times, IIRC, but Paramount was going to make a new series with GR's involvement or not. Paramount wanted his return to active involvement as part of the media hype.
He jumped on and threw his name on the animated series and he jumped on for TMP, so obviously he realized the potential with the growing popularity. He should have stayed with his show until the end. Not just sit there and collect a check and watch it self implode by shitty writing, crappy production, and other stupid stuff that destroyed S3.

And if he didn't want no part of TNG he should have just walked away. Yet, he stayed anyway. Meh, whatever.
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Old April 11 2011, 05:12 AM   #24
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Roddenberry had a good idea with TOS, but that was it. He went all casting couch with Nichelle Nichols, and Majel, if the stories are to be believed.

He stole from Alexander Courage, as has been stated earlier.

He sparked something but had no good ideas after. He is the George Lucas of his age.
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Old April 11 2011, 05:21 PM   #25
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

^ To be fair, as much as I think George Lucas went off the deep end and became creatively bankrupt, I think he contributed far more of the things we remember fondly about Star Wars than Roddenberry contributed things we remember fondly about Star Trek.
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Old April 12 2011, 03:56 AM   #26
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Merky wrote: View Post
You don't sacrifice your show because you didn't get what you wanted. You fight through and work with what you got. I wouldn't call that commendable at all.
In the television world, you don't show weakness to the studio or network, or else they'll expect you to backflip on every idle threat you make. Gene said he'd walk if he received an impossible timeslot.

If he'd stayed, we'd probably have people, decades after the fact, accusing GR of being weak when he should have stood up to the network.

He jumped on and threw his name on the animated series and he jumped on for TMP, so obviously he realized the potential with the growing popularity.
Ah, I so love revisionist history. GR refused to allow other animation studios to water down TAS, and also quashed Filmation's first proposal, which had Mini Me cadets assigned to each main character. Of course NBC wanted the Roddenberry name on it. GR's company, Norway, co-produced it with Filmation. GR was determined that any animation attempt would preserve his concepts and assigned DC Fontana to ensure it went well.

And he didn't "jump on" for TMP. It evolved out of "ST: Phase II", which GR kept presenting to Paramount and NBC until it was greenlit as a movie/telemovie/TV series/motion picture.

He was very much a part of ST's growing popularity, doing conventions and university lectures, encouraging fanzines, encouraging an early prime time slot for syndicated reruns, setting up Lincoln Enterprises, employing Bjo Trimble to answer fan mail, attempting to put some quality control into tie-in licensing, etc.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; April 12 2011 at 04:07 AM.
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Old April 12 2011, 06:14 AM   #27
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

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Old April 12 2011, 06:15 AM   #28
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

Merky wrote: View Post
YAh, I so love revisionist history. GR refused to allow other animation studios to water down TAS, and also quashed Filmation's first proposal, which had Mini Me cadets assigned to each main character.
Yet he included absurd concept like inflatable decoys, dragons, anthropomorphic aliens and worst of all this

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Ar...y_creature.jpg
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Old April 12 2011, 09:08 AM   #29
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

I don't know the guy personally, but I think people shouldn't worry so much what other people do. He did really give us a great show which was the first show I was very addicted to for a while. I must have watched TNG reruns over and over again for about 4, maybe 5, years straight.

But really nobody is perfect. That's the way people are, and there is nothing wrong with that. Everybody likes to think they are the man, but really everybody got something to offer....
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Old April 12 2011, 10:16 AM   #30
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Re: What do people feel about Gene?

brian577 wrote: View Post
Merky wrote: View Post
YAh, I so love revisionist history. GR refused to allow other animation studios to water down TAS, and also quashed Filmation's first proposal, which had Mini Me cadets assigned to each main character.
Yet he included absurd concept like inflatable decoys, dragons, anthropomorphic aliens and worst of all this

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Ar...y_creature.jpg
Hun. I didn't say that.


Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Merky wrote: View Post
You don't sacrifice your show because you didn't get what you wanted. You fight through and work with what you got. I wouldn't call that commendable at all.
In the television world, you don't show weakness to the studio or network, or else they'll expect you to backflip on every idle threat you make. Gene said he'd walk if he received an impossible timeslot.

If he'd stayed, we'd probably have people, decades after the fact, accusing GR of being weak when he should have stood up to the network.
I disagree wholeheartedly with that. Throwing a bitch fit tantrum (figuratively) and walking off, abandoning your creation, just shows that you rather kill off your creation than fight for it. Gene allowed the show to self destruct and the poor writing, production, growing dissatisfaction from the crew and cast, all culminated to a major decrease in quality that, I am sure, affected whatever lasting chance Star Trek had on television.

Shows have been saved from death, obviously with example from ST itself, but you don't feed shit to people and expect them to eat it. S3 was a joke to S2 and S1... Had Gene been there fighting with the studios and working with ways to save ST to make it more marketable and appealing to NBC, it probably would have never been canceled as early as it was. A fourth or maybe fifth season could have came of it. A simple time slot change doesn't kill a show - poor writing and creative control does.

eta: He could have done more than what he did is what I'm trying to say. If he really believed in his show he would have done more.
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