Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations

Photon · May 8 2011, 01:49 PM

Shouldn't they have cleaned the floor w/the humans? Anyway, I appreciate DS9 for at least broaching the topic of how the Klingons changed. Wished we'd have seen something of how Kor and Koloth and those dudes changed back to Klingon "normal".

Does anyone like ST: ENT's explanation of the augment situation?

More: how about the Romulans, were they augmented in the TOS days? Gah!

Jono · May 8 2011, 03:26 PM

Those Klingons weren't Augments in the same way the Human Augments were, they were descendents of those who were exposed to a modified flu virus that made them lose their ridges, but in curing them they didn't gain any increased strength or intelligence as the Human Augments are given. So the TOS Klingons would be the same strength as any Klingon despite lacking ridges.

I'm fine with ENT's answer to the question, but if DS9 didn't (unknowingly) put them in the situation of having to explain that the difference was something in-universe and not purely a makeup issue I'd have been fine if someone just said there was no in-universe reason, it was completely a production thing.

As for the Romulans. Given they are related to Vulcans maybe some just naturally look more Vulcan for whatever reason.

G2309 · May 8 2011, 06:35 PM

I liked the ds9 writers approach that any explanation would be ridiculous wgat Worf said was perfect. Didnt like the way ENT tried to explain it.

Distorted Humor · May 8 2011, 08:35 PM

The only way that would of been better then Ds9 way of handling it would be when the time shift occurs, have worf makeup change to the 1960s makeup and not have a soul comment on the change.

Mr. Laser Beam · May 8 2011, 09:22 PM

Jono wrote:

As for the Romulans. Given they are related to Vulcans maybe some just naturally look more Vulcan for whatever reason.

Or the Romulan ridges could be due to Reman influence.

Rom's Sehlat · May 8 2011, 09:32 PM

Why? Because bats have forehead ridges?

Perhaps it's time for someone to do a remastering of "Trials and Tribble-ations" where Worf does change to a 60's era Klingon!

Nerys Myk · May 9 2011, 01:56 AM

Photon wrote:

Shouldn't they have cleaned the floor w/the humans? Anyway, I appreciate DS9 for at least broaching the topic of how the Klingons changed. Wished we'd have seen something of how Kor and Koloth and those dudes changed back to Klingon "normal".

Does anyone like ST: ENT's explanation of the augment situation?

More: how about the Romulans, were they augmented in the TOS days? Gah!

The humans in "Trouble With Tribbles" had no problem kicking Klingon ass. So why should the humans in "Trials and Tribbilation have a problem?

USS Excelsior · May 9 2011, 02:00 AM

And we never see any regular Klingons in TOS, and after TMP we don't see any more TOS Klingons. And I suppose Kang, Koloth, and Kor spontaneously got better along with the other TOS Klingons.

Rageforthemachine · May 9 2011, 02:15 AM

Yeah the episode was supposed to be a nod and a wink to fanboy nitpicking, but I think it raised a bigger question. How is it possible Bashir and O'Brien were unaware that the Federations greatest enemy looked different in the past then they do now. I mean I know they didn't have television anymore, but did they get rid of all cameras too?

Nerys Myk · May 9 2011, 02:30 AM

The Boy Who Cried Worf wrote:

Yeah the episode was supposed to be a nod and a wink to fanboy nitpicking, but I think it raised a bigger question. How is it possible Bashir and O'Brien were unaware that the Federations greatest enemy looked different in the past then they do now. I mean I know they didn't have television anymore, but did they get rid of all cameras too?

Maybe they failed 23rd Century History because they didnt pay attention?

Mr. Laser Beam · May 9 2011, 05:59 AM

The Boy Who Cried Worf wrote:

How is it possible Bashir and O'Brien were unaware that the Federations greatest enemy looked different in the past then they do now.

They probably just didn't bother to look in the history books. Why would they? I doubt it was something they liked to think about. The only Klingons they ever knew personally were allies (such as Worf), so they wouldn't have been motivated to go poking around.

David cgc · May 9 2011, 06:11 AM

And if smooth Klingons were the minority, then it could be that all the one pictured in the Federation history textbooks for the 23rd century (ambassadors, chancellors, and the like, probably) were ridged.

exalted one · May 9 2011, 06:53 AM

You're forgetting one thing: 23rd century humans themselves are descendants of augments. There's no way of telling how many augments managed to send their DNA forth before they were overthrown.
Or you never wondered why Kirk manages to beat the poo out of Khan in the engineering scene?

T'Girl · May 9 2011, 08:47 AM

Two things.

One, would a augment be capable of producing children with a normal Human being?

Two, according to the conversation between Spock and McCoy, Khan and the other "supermen" were not genetically augmented, but rather the result of selective breeding, not the same thing. Khan and the augments were two different creations.

Photon · May 9 2011, 11:30 AM

T'Girl wrote:

Two things.

One, would a augment be capable of producing children with a normal Human being?

Two, according to the conversation between Spock and McCoy, Khan and the other "supermen" were not genetically augmented, but rather the result of selective breeding, not the same thing. Khan and the augments were two different creations.

Good pt. Khan ruled the Earth in the 80's 90's, I blv and was overthrown from the Eugenics War. Nice call

May 8 2011, 01:49 PM	#1
Photon Commodore Location: Dixie	Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations Shouldn't they have cleaned the floor w/the humans? Anyway, I appreciate DS9 for at least broaching the topic of how the Klingons changed. Wished we'd have seen something of how Kor and Koloth and those dudes changed back to Klingon "normal". Does anyone like ST: ENT's explanation of the augment situation? More: how about the Romulans, were they augmented in the TOS days? Gah!

May 8 2011, 03:26 PM	#2
Jono Rear Admiral Location: Australia	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations Those Klingons weren't Augments in the same way the Human Augments were, they were descendents of those who were exposed to a modified flu virus that made them lose their ridges, but in curing them they didn't gain any increased strength or intelligence as the Human Augments are given. So the TOS Klingons would be the same strength as any Klingon despite lacking ridges. I'm fine with ENT's answer to the question, but if DS9 didn't (unknowingly) put them in the situation of having to explain that the difference was something in-universe and not purely a makeup issue I'd have been fine if someone just said there was no in-universe reason, it was completely a production thing. As for the Romulans. Given they are related to Vulcans maybe some just naturally look more Vulcan for whatever reason. __________________ Those who lose dreaming are lost.

May 8 2011, 06:35 PM	#3
G2309 Captain	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations I liked the ds9 writers approach that any explanation would be ridiculous wgat Worf said was perfect. Didnt like the way ENT tried to explain it. __________________ I've got blog with some scifi reviews and humour if you want to check it out http://wondersandparodies.blogspot.com/

May 8 2011, 08:35 PM	#4
Distorted Humor Fleet Captain Location: Z'ha'dum	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations The only way that would of been better then Ds9 way of handling it would be when the time shift occurs, have worf makeup change to the 1960s makeup and not have a soul comment on the change. __________________ In the Marmalade forest (forest), between the make believe trees, in a cottage cheese cottage! Lives Albie, (Albie,) Albie, (Albie,) Albie the Racist Dragon...

May 8 2011, 09:32 PM	#6
Rom's Sehlat Fleet Captain	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations Why? Because bats have forehead ridges? Perhaps it's time for someone to do a remastering of "Trials and Tribble-ations" where Worf does change to a 60's era Klingon!

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May 9 2011, 02:00 AM	#8
USS Excelsior Fleet Captain Location: Alpha Quadrant	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations And we never see any regular Klingons in TOS, and after TMP we don't see any more TOS Klingons. And I suppose Kang, Koloth, and Kor spontaneously got better along with the other TOS Klingons.

May 9 2011, 02:15 AM	#9
Rageforthemachine Rear Admiral	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations Yeah the episode was supposed to be a nod and a wink to fanboy nitpicking, but I think it raised a bigger question. How is it possible Bashir and O'Brien were unaware that the Federations greatest enemy looked different in the past then they do now. I mean I know they didn't have television anymore, but did they get rid of all cameras too?

May 9 2011, 06:11 AM	#12
David cgc Vice Admiral	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations And if smooth Klingons were the minority, then it could be that all the one pictured in the Federation history textbooks for the 23rd century (ambassadors, chancellors, and the like, probably) were ridged. __________________ “I come here to have fun and fuck around merrily. I expect to showered by all kind of random crap.” — iguana_tonante

May 9 2011, 06:53 AM	#13
exalted one Commander	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations You're forgetting one thing: 23rd century humans themselves are descendants of augments. There's no way of telling how many augments managed to send their DNA forth before they were overthrown. Or you never wondered why Kirk manages to beat the poo out of Khan in the engineering scene? __________________ You madmen, stop feeding the Newts!

May 9 2011, 08:47 AM	#14
T'Girl Vice Admiral	Re: Klingon Augments in Trials & Tribbilations Two things. One, would a augment be capable of producing children with a normal Human being? Two, according to the conversation between Spock and McCoy, Khan and the other "supermen" were not genetically augmented, but rather the result of selective breeding, not the same thing. Khan and the augments were two different creations.