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Old October 24 2012, 08:37 AM   #1096
mswood
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
I honestly understand what you are getting at. That said, three films still seems bloated.

Let me tell you this:
My mother read the Hobbit when us kids were younger. She enjoyed the break from reality and would find herself lost in the book - during the short times us kids were napping. A few years ago when this project was being bandied about in the Hollywood news bits, she was eager to see it, and eager to know that the people behind the Lord of the Rings films were making it.

When I told her it was three films, she was actually upset and didn't want to see it anymmore. She thought it was ridiculous. Honestly, I think her view might be shared by the "non-nerd, non fanboy" type who just wants to go and see the Hobbit put on screen, something where thse people can pay their ticket and get a complete story.

The point is that, while you are correct in what you are saying, you are also missing the point. I don't know if the whole three-film thing has even sunk in for the casual Hobbit fans, but it will eventually, and, when it does, this group of people (these casual fans generally familiar with the Hobbit story but uninterested in the actual production-aspects of Hollywood films) will, at best, be scratching their heads - not bubbling with enthusiasm, and, at worst, they'll see it for what it may be, a safe money-grab on the part of Jackson.
Oh I completely agree that there are going to be a huge number of people who think a book should be done in one film. That's what cinema history has conditioned us to believe.

But the truth of the matter is we don't ever get complete or even somewhat complete versions of most films in the standard movie release, we get an abridged versions of those books.

You want close to full versions of books and you are going to have to go for long form. Normally that been the realm of TV miniseries or tv series.

But which telling of Pride & Prejudice is closest to the book? Any of the film versions or the 8 hour miniseries?

Which version of Horatio Hornblower is the best, any of the films, or the initial 8 hour A&E miniseries of Mr. Midshipmen Hornblower?

Those two book by the way are nearly page for page the length of the Hobbit, and are routinely considered the best telling so far in a visual medium of those two stores.

Look at the book Game of Thrones, thats a ten hour season on HBO, and it still leaves out a ton of stuff from the book. And each book in that universe is getting a ten hour treatment, and in each book they are still having to cut and combine elements to fit into an 10 hour story.

Band of Brothers, a great HO miniseries, based on one book, considered one of the finest miniseries ever made. How many hours does that book translate into?

Heck look at the LoTR movies, all three are exceptionally long by film standards, and each had huge amounts of additional scenes filmed, which I would guess abut 80% was released in the Extended cuts. And even with those 3 and a half hour to 4 hour cuts how much of each book was still excised out? Huge amounts. Easily enough to consume another hour of film, easily.

I don't mind people saying they don't want to see a long version of a film (or a film cut into multiple parts). After all that is there choice. But to deride the idea of a book taking up 8 hours of screen time or so, is utterly ridiculous. And shows a huge lack of understanding about what is all in pretty much any non short story. Generally for a full length book you are just getting the cliff notes version made into a films, and frankly I get sick and tired of that.

Heck, the unabridged recording of the Hobbit is 11 hours long.
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Old October 24 2012, 08:47 AM   #1097
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Oh just to add. I am not saying the Hobbit is even going to be good. It could be the worst film ever made.

But its length, in line with the book, isn't a reason to assume its going to be bloated.

Footage we see, now thats a different story as we can clearly see huge changes in the book, as we see characters talk who never spoke dialogue in the books. Clearly designed to make the Dwarves 3 dimension characters (of which most of them are absolutely not in the book), but do to that you are going to see I would imagine a lot of dialogue and screen time to establish these characters. And they aren't going to be from the book. Inspired perhaps, but definitely not from the book.
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Old October 24 2012, 08:50 AM   #1098
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

The reason extended cuts are put in DVDs is to make people believe they are getting added value. In almost all cases* edits end up on the cutting room floor for a good reason. Jackson has simply taken this to its logical conclusion, dispensed with editing anything out and charging people for the privilege. We've already had 3 over-long, over-sentimental but visually stunning sword-fests, which were saved by the acting of a couple of the leads. I expect these three will be more of the same but because there is less material to start with, the padding will be of galactic proportions. Prepare for sweeping vistas, long close-ups with sobbing music, panoramic battle scenes, lots and lots of riding, running, walking wearily and creeping stealthily across lovely landscapes.

*Alien 3 is the exception; the theatrical release made no sense.
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Old October 24 2012, 09:23 PM   #1099
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Peter Jackson reveals the approximate running time for An Unexpected Journey:

“It’s looking like it’s going to be about ten minutes shorter than Fellowship was," explains Jackson. "So it’s going to be officially our shortest Middle-earth yet. I mean, Fellowship was just under three hours and this is about 2 hours 40 minutes at the moment.”


The "at the moment" refers to the fact that the credits hadn't yet been added and not all effects shots finalised when we spoke to Jackson, but it's going to be close.
Empire

That's pretty much what I was expecting.
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Old October 24 2012, 09:27 PM   #1100
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Just so long as there's no fucking Elven snowboarding down things in this trilogy...
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Old October 24 2012, 09:48 PM   #1101
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Ugh. Two hours and forty minutes, and that's just for the first movie. I imagine the second and third will be at least three hours each.

Which to me is just way too freakin long. I enjoyed LOTR, but I'm not exactly dying to sit through another 9 hours of it.
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Old October 24 2012, 10:22 PM   #1102
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
Prepare for sweeping vistas, long close-ups with sobbing music, panoramic battle scenes, lots and lots of riding, running, walking wearily and creeping stealthily across lovely landscapes.
And dwarf bodily functions. I'm looking at you, ROTK EE.
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Old October 25 2012, 12:27 AM   #1103
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Just so long as there's no fucking Elven snowboarding down things in this trilogy...
I thought they'd earned it, as with the ridiculously cool moment where Leggy swings onto his horse as the Warg attack begins.

I kind of draw the line at ROTK's "game over" line, though.
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Old October 25 2012, 04:27 AM   #1104
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
The reason extended cuts are put in DVDs is to make people believe they are getting added value. In almost all cases* edits end up on the cutting room floor for a good reason. Jackson has simply taken this to its logical conclusion, dispensed with editing anything out and charging people for the privilege. We've already had 3 over-long, over-sentimental but visually stunning sword-fests, which were saved by the acting of a couple of the leads. I expect these three will be more of the same but because there is less material to start with, the padding will be of galactic proportions. Prepare for sweeping vistas, long close-ups with sobbing music, panoramic battle scenes, lots and lots of riding, running, walking wearily and creeping stealthily across lovely landscapes.

*Alien 3 is the exception; the theatrical release made no sense.
Frankly thats a bunch of crap. Now I do agree that a lot of material that is cut from film is cut for three primary reasons and one of them is the reason you listed.

1, Being material that just isn't up to the quality of the bulk of the film

But here are two very common reasons for cutting.

2. Length, most film studios will try and keep films under 2 and a half hours. Could be a thousand page book, its going to be under 2 and a half hours. usually films that have a huge name director, or films that are considered money in the bank already can exceed this.

3. Cutting material to give a movie a certain focus. If you have a large cast for example you might film material for thats balanced out, but when you decide to market it you might want to have one primary story as the driving force, so you edit the material to focus on that one character and lessen the role of others.

As for Jackson you realize he cut a ton of material out of the three lord of the rings films, even the extended editions aren't even close to all the material he shot for those three films. Its estimated he could put back in over 30 min on each film, and thats not even counting material that was filmed and then rewritten afterwards and redone in pickups. Like Arwen at Helms' Deep as an easy example.

For example with the exceptions of 4 scenes in the extended editions, I think they are the far superior cut, they even get better critical reviews then the theatrical cuts, so its not just my meaningless opinion.

There are 4 though, that I think hurt the films. There isn't enough for example in Fellowship that was added that didn't help improve the film.

Kingdom in Heaven is an example of a film that the extended cut is far superior to the theatrical release.

It all depends on the material. Long doesn't equal crap. Period.

Doesn't equal good either. But pretty much any literary classic book thats been done in long form verses standard theatrical length that I have seen I found superior.
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Old October 25 2012, 10:38 AM   #1105
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Wereghost wrote: View Post
Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Just so long as there's no fucking Elven snowboarding down things in this trilogy...
I thought they'd earned it, as with the ridiculously cool moment where Leggy swings onto his horse as the Warg attack begins.

I kind of draw the line at ROTK's "game over" line, though.
I'm thinking of him boarding down stairs in TTT, and the oliphaunt's trunk in ROTK...
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Old October 25 2012, 11:12 AM   #1106
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

mswood wrote: View Post
Frankly thats a bunch of crap.
And then you went on at length to mostly agree with me. Strange.
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Old October 25 2012, 02:03 PM   #1107
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Frau Blucher wrote: View Post
sweeping vistas ... with sobbing music
Worth the price of admission for me.
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Old October 25 2012, 10:53 PM   #1108
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Come to Wellington airport, see the ruddy great big Gollum to scare the crap out of passengers:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment...led-at-airport
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Old October 25 2012, 11:35 PM   #1109
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

That's awesome!
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Old October 26 2012, 02:29 AM   #1110
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Yeah, that is pretty impressive.
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