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Old April 30 2011, 03:07 AM   #91
InklingStar
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I would love to have Christopher Lee as Saruman for the White Council scenes. He is an ally at this point, and for new viewers (if there are any left) it will come as quite a twist for him to betray Gandalf in FotR.
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Old April 30 2011, 03:57 AM   #92
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

This may be like, OT or non-contributory to discussion specifically about this film, but my problem with the making of The Hobbit is that I'm a huge, huge JRRT fan - and it's taken years to get this project MOVING, much less completed, I think the estimated release date is in 2012? or 13?

But my gripe isn't how long its taken, it's the fact that for all this work, for all this waiting... to be prefectly honest, the Hobbit is the retarded kid of the bunch - there are SO MANY MORE interesting stories to be told OTHER than The Hobbit. If they managed to get production companies onboard for a 2-part Hobbit movie, they could've probably gotten them onboard for a 2-or-3 part story based on the Silmarillion... AND BEFORE I hear one damn whiney little LOTR-poser of a JRRT fan bitch and moan about how the Silmarillion is like an encyclopedia that you can't tell as a story, I've read it like 5 times, I've read the entire history of middle earth, the tales of numenor and middle earth, the poems of tom bombadil tales from the perilous realm - and The Silmarillion ABSOLUTELY has a primary continuous storyline that could be followed - the war of the jewels.

A Silmarillion film would have way, way, WAY more solid storytelling material to work with than The Hobbit. You've got fantastically interesting characters like Feanor, Fingolfin, the whole House of Elwe, the killing of the Trees of Valinor by Morgoth and Ungoliant, and story of the Noldor, the story of Turin Turambar and Niniel, these huge epic battles that took place between the Elves and Morgoth, the fight of the first Balrog with Glorfindel, the story of the fall of Gondolin; you have plenty of opportunities to reference or even include familiar characters from LOTR like Elrond and his brother the first king of Numenor Elros, Galadriel, possibly Arwen since her date of birth isn't set in stone, Celeborn, even antecedents of Aragorn like his ancestor Earendil, you've got the early history of Numenor if it went that far, I mean if it were ambitious enough you could lead right into the prologue of FOTR with the battle where the ring was cut.

The Hobbit was written in the 30's, basically for Christopher, as a little children's story side project, it just so happened to take place in the same universe. LOTR and The Silmarillion have far more in common in terms of style, composition, and story elements.
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Old April 30 2011, 04:02 AM   #93
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

They don't have the rights to The Silmarillion, and as long as Christopher Tolkien lives, the Tolkien estate won't give them up.

And The Silmarillion would need probably about five movies to really have enough time to tell all the most important stories.
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Old April 30 2011, 04:08 AM   #94
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Skywalker wrote: View Post
They don't have the rights to The Silmarillion, and as long as Christopher Tolkien lives, the Tolkien estate won't give them up.

And The Silmarillion would need probably about five movies to really have enough time to tell all the most important stories.
Well he IS getting pretty old, it probably won't be too long. Dumb question but I don't know much about this legal stuff - how were the rights to the Hobbit acquired?

I bet they could do it in 3 - but they'd be long like the trilogy - and I'd agree it probably couldn't be done in any fewer.
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Old April 30 2011, 04:20 AM   #95
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

InklingStar wrote: View Post
I would love to have Christopher Lee as Saruman for the White Council scenes. He is an ally at this point, and for new viewers (if there are any left) it will come as quite a twist for him to betray Gandalf in FotR.
Nah, apart from the fact that he's Christopher freakin' Lee, his calling Hobbits "halflings" is a dead giveaway.
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Old April 30 2011, 06:13 AM   #96
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

John O. wrote: View Post
The Silmarillion ABSOLUTELY has a primary continuous storyline that could be followed - the war of the jewels.
But not a consistent group of characters. You could do it as a miniseries with almost a whole new cast in each installment, if the public would go for that.
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Old April 30 2011, 10:38 AM   #97
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

And let's face it, comparatively few people ever read the Silmarillion as opposed to the Hobbit or the LOTR trilogy.

I owned every JRRT book at one time, but never read the entire Silmarillion.
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Old April 30 2011, 11:14 AM   #98
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I actually really like The Silmarillion, but yeah, it's a pretty dry read, even compared to LOTR.

If by some miracle a series of Silmarillion movies (either theatrical or television) happened, I'd split it up something like this:

Movie 1: The forging of the Silmarils and Fëanor's quest to retrieve them after their theft by Morgoth (Ainulindalë and the pre-Silmaril history of Arda summed up during opening credits)
Movie 2: Dagor Bragollach, death of Fingolfin, Beren and Luthien and their quest for the Silmaril
Movie 3: Nirnaeth Arnoediad, capture of Húrin and the tragedy of Túrin Turambar
Movie 4: Tuor and the fall of Gondolin
Movie 5: Eärendil's journey to Aman, the War of Wrath, and the end of the First Age (final scene being the Edain sailing for Númenor)
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Old April 30 2011, 01:57 PM   #99
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

As someone who read the Appendix to the Return of the King, even I think the Silmarillion would make a bad movie. Maybe it's just the way the story was told. The LOTR was a personal story focusing on characters. The Silmarillion is sort of detached folk lore. It has an omniscient narrator throughout if I recall correctly. It doesn't lend itself to the same style as everything else (while the Hobbit does, aside from being a lighter tale).
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Old April 30 2011, 03:12 PM   #100
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
As someone who read the Appendix to the Return of the King, even I think the Silmarillion would make a bad movie. Maybe it's just the way the story was told. The LOTR was a personal story focusing on characters. The Silmarillion is sort of detached folk lore. It has an omniscient narrator throughout if I recall correctly. It doesn't lend itself to the same style as everything else (while the Hobbit does, aside from being a lighter tale).
Dude, it could be EPIC.

The Silmarillion is not ONE tale. It's a collection of unrelated stories. Beren and Luthien would make a hell of a movie. And, man... the story of Feanor and his sons -- that would be majorly BITCHIN.
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Old April 30 2011, 03:26 PM   #101
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

A collection of unrelated tales almost always do not make an epic movie. The only time it works is in Tarentino-esque ultra violent gangster movies.
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Old April 30 2011, 03:47 PM   #102
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Wasn't the short version of The Children Of Húrin in the Silmarillion? The novel could form the basis of a fine film or HBO miniseries, imho.
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Old April 30 2011, 05:05 PM   #103
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

<cranky old man voice> No one cares about your Sillmulacrons!
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Old April 30 2011, 06:07 PM   #104
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I am one of the few Tolkien fans to have read the Silmarillion prior to The Hobbit or LotR. I am also a history nerd so there you go.

I think that some of the larger stories could be adapted to movies. Christopher Tolkien already crafted Narn I Chin Hurin into a self-contained novel, so why not a movie? The Ley of Leithian could also be adapted. The stories of Feanor, the fall of Gondolin, and perhaps even the rape of the Silmarils would make great movies or miniseries.

However, imagine how badly Hollywood could mess them up... Though I disagree with a few of Peter Jackson's changes to LotR, I think he generally "got" the spirit of the books. A hundred other directors would probably have made a much worse product. The Silmarillion in the hands of someone who does not "get" the spirit of the tale would be an absolute disaster.
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Old April 30 2011, 07:10 PM   #105
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Movies would be the only way I'd ever learn the stories of The Silmarillion. I am interested in what they're about, but I have no intention of ever reading them.
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