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Old December 24 2011, 04:26 PM   #556
Captain Craig
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I'm not really going to be hung up on potatoes and tobacco. Just show me a really good movie.
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Old December 24 2011, 04:29 PM   #557
Alidar Jarok
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

The Hobbit was written before the time period Band of Brothers is supposed to be set in. It takes place in a time much farther back that is supposed to evoke the middle ages. It would be strange for it to evoke modern sensibilities. Yes, there's a gender imbalance. It's not trying to be a piece of feminist work. This is really just a silly complaint.

Now potatoes, that's serious business
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Old December 24 2011, 06:06 PM   #558
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Crassmass Eve wrote: View Post
mswood wrote: View Post
Crassmass Eve wrote: View Post
A marathon of stories without women except for one shieldmaiden, an elf who had to be written in from the footnotes and a walk-on part for the elf queen.
Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.
Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.
And that's where you completely miss the boat (and why I specifically used Band of Brothers as an example).

Of course (like you mentioned) if that story was a general telling of war time France, then women would have all sorts of roles. But its not its a story set with a combat force made of males (who only run into women a few times in their travels and none for any real significant exchanges).

But LOTR is also a war time story, but not a general one, one that is told of a band (ie fellowship) and not the general overall war time effort. IE the story only follows the members of the fellowship. Even in the Hobbit it's basically routed force going back into battle, one using subterfuge, instead of open war fare. All the cultures used are based on cultures that had a strict demarcation (at that time) of what roles women would have in society as a whole).

Just as in Band of Brothers int eh US, women's roles would not allow them in combat military. Women had very set roles in the military.

I mean the fact that Tolkien even included one women who went against the rules of society in getting into combat, shows greater latitude then the military of World War I or II.

So the fact that you have no problems with Band of Brothers yet do with LOTR and the Hobbit really seems rather odd and inconsistent.
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Old December 24 2011, 07:03 PM   #559
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

mswood wrote: View Post
Crassmass Eve wrote: View Post
mswood wrote: View Post

Not a problem in the slightest. I can watch Band if Brothers for example and not be moan the lack of women characters that are prominent in their quest, why should I here.
Band of Brothers is about an army unit in the Second World War. The screaming inconsistency would have been if there had been any women. Had it been about wartime France as a whole, however, and but one woman played a pivotal role, you have to wonder about the blinkers the writer was wearing.
And that's where you completely miss the boat (and why I specifically used Band of Brothers as an example).

Of course (like you mentioned) if that story was a general telling of war time France, then women would have all sorts of roles. But its not its a story set with a combat force made of males (who only run into women a few times in their travels and none for any real significant exchanges).

But LOTR is also a war time story, but not a general one, one that is told of a band (ie fellowship) and not the general overall war time effort. IE the story only follows the members of the fellowship. Even in the Hobbit it's basically routed force going back into battle, one using subterfuge, instead of open war fare. All the cultures used are based on cultures that had a strict demarcation (at that time) of what roles women would have in society as a whole).

Just as in Band of Brothers int eh US, women's roles would not allow them in combat military. Women had very set roles in the military.

I mean the fact that Tolkien even included one women who went against the rules of society in getting into combat, shows greater latitude then the military of World War I or II.

So the fact that you have no problems with Band of Brothers yet do with LOTR and the Hobbit really seems rather odd and inconsistent.
Indeed, some of Tolkien's inspiration for Fellowship came from his own experiences in World War I, Frodo's perspective especially: He left his idyllic home and trudged through a war-torn hell in order to save his home and his friends. He succeeded, but upon his return he found that things had changed, or more accurately he had changed, and he no longer fit in the home he struggled so hard to save. A great illustration of the young soldier returning from war.
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Old December 24 2011, 08:07 PM   #560
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

InklingStar wrote: View Post

"In ancient days they (the Elves) had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay."
The Hobbit, page 168
The actual story of this event can be found in The Silmarillion, specifically "Of The Ruin of Doriath." The elf-king Thingol contracts with some dwarves to set a silmaril into a necklace called the nauglimir, which had been made by the dwarves for a fellow elf-king who was now dead. The dwarves try to steal it, claiming ownership, as well as lured by the silmaril, and they assassinate Thingol when he protests. Thus began the hatred between elves and dwarves.

When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, much of the stories that would later be published in The Silmarillion were already extant in one form or another. So he made little connections throughout what was supposed to be a children's story to his greater legendarium, including the way Elrond notes that Gandalf and Thorin's swords once belonged to his great-grandfather Turgon, the elf-king of Gondolin.
I actually thought that wasn't referring to Thingol, on account of the fact that it says "the elf-king" (Thranduil) and not Thingol.

Particularly because the version in The Hobbit implies its really the "Elf-King's" fault and a squabble over due payment for the Dwarves....while the Silmarillion makes it clear that the Dwarves were really just trying to steal the Silmaril.

Though its obviously a repeated trope.
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Old December 24 2011, 08:16 PM   #561
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

TOMATOES DO NOT EXIST IN MIDDLE-EARTH
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Old December 24 2011, 08:45 PM   #562
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

V wrote: View Post
TOMATOES DO NOT EXIST IN MIDDLE-EARTH
Why are you yelling?
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Old December 25 2011, 10:22 AM   #563
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Anybody seen Production Video #4 already? Seems like the 3D in this movie won't be anything like we've already seen. 5K, 48 frames per seconds instead of just 24, and cameras built to much better simulate human eyes.

Amazing video.. gives you a good impression about the technical details of film making and i like especially the effort the put in to do 3D justice instead of slapping it on in post production to be able to raise the ticket price a bit.

Since Avatar i didn't like the 3D aspect in any movie.. it ranged from meh to downright anger (Clash of the Titans being the worst offender) to a point where i actively sought the 2D version of a movie even though the 3D version was playing in a better theatre with better systems.

However this one makes me very curious to see in 3D and what has improved since Avatar.. especially curious if i'll still get a mild headache after seeing it (something that also puts me off 3D).

Side note:
Thank God PJ is putting on weight again.. not so much as in his LotR days but i saw an actual picture of him last year and he looked so thin and sickly that it scared me a bit (and he was having medical problems that needed surgery). Now that he's gained a few pounds again he looks so much healthier.. i like him with his hobbit physique.
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Old December 25 2011, 11:36 PM   #564
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I'm not really going to be hung up on potatoes and tobacco. Just show me a really good movie.
This.

Wow. Ian McKellan and Cate Blanchet look like they just stepped off of the RotK set a few weeks ago. I didn't see Hugo Weaving at all in the trailer. He is still in the movie, right? IMDB says so.
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Old December 25 2011, 11:50 PM   #565
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I'm not really going to be hung up on potatoes and tobacco. Just show me a really good movie.
This.

Wow. Ian McKellan and Cate Blanchet look like they just stepped off of the RotK set a few weeks ago. I didn't see Hugo Weaving at all in the trailer. He is still in the movie, right? IMDB says so.
Hugo Weaving can be seen on set in costume in one of the production videos.
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Old December 25 2011, 11:59 PM   #566
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I didn't see Hugo Weaving at all in the trailer. He is still in the movie, right? IMDB says so.



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Old December 26 2011, 12:26 AM   #567
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Very cool. Thanks.
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Old December 26 2011, 04:35 AM   #568
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Damn it! Ever since seeing the trailer, specifically the snippet seen at 2:03-2:05, I've had...

Chip the cups, smash the plates
That's what Bilbo Baggins hates

...stuck in my head.
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Old December 26 2011, 05:40 AM   #569
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Damn it! Ever since seeing the trailer, specifically the snippet seen at 2:03-2:05, I've had...

Chip the cups, smash the plates
That's what Bilbo Baggins hates

...stuck in my head.


I must admit it's going to be weird to watch the Rankin/Bass movie after we finally see PJ's take on the book. I know a lot of people don't like the animated movie, but I grew up on it and there was even a house at my summer camp that had paintings of the movie on the walls. I think it's a wonderful lighthearted take on the story and the animation style is actually quite lovely. Yes, there are some things I don't like about it such as the animated depictions of Gollum and the Goblins (hm, that would be a good band name) as well as some of the songs.
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Old December 28 2011, 12:45 AM   #570
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

[QUOTE=FPAlpha;5480068]
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Side note:
Thank God PJ is putting on weight again.. not so much as in his LotR days but i saw an actual picture of him last year and he looked so thin and sickly that it scared me a bit (and he was having medical problems that needed surgery). Now that he's gained a few pounds again he looks so much healthier.. i like him with his hobbit physique.
Much of his weight loss was due to an ulcer for which he had surgery early in production of the Hobbit. Jackson's metbolism seems to work in reverse. You would think he would lose weight during these marathon film projects he undertakes. Instead, he's been steadily gaining as the Hobbit rolls along. And yes, he looks much healthier now.
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