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Old December 22 2011, 11:44 PM   #496
Samurai8472
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Only on the surface does it looks like retread of LOTR's.

Another collection of different races trekking through the New Zealand terrain.
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Old December 22 2011, 11:46 PM   #497
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

V wrote: View Post
Even Tolkien said people probably wouldn't like The Silmarillion unless they were really deep into the world; "there's no Hobbits in it!"
Well, almost. Hobbits - called in the text Halflings, Periannath, or Little People - are only mentioned in the part of the chapter "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" which covers events from the timeframe of The Hobbit and LOTR: Bilbo ( not named but referred to as "a wayfarer" ) finding the Ring and bringing it back to the Shire; Gandalf setting a watch upon the Shire and biding his time; Frodo and "his servant" taking the Ring to Mount Doom where it was unmade ( though The Silmarillion's account claims that Frodo cast the Ring into the fire ).
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Old December 23 2011, 12:38 AM   #498
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

nvek86 wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
I'm still not entirely convinced that they won't do that "bridge film" that was originally rumored to be the second part of this film project (before they instead decided to split The Hobbit). The studio's going to look at all that money these two movies will bring in and go "Why not make another one?"
I thought they already incorporated all/most of the "bridge film" stuff into the "Hobbit" (like what was Gandalf up to, the attack of the White Council,...)?
I mean: It's possible of course, but they are running out of things they have the rights to.
Not that I'm trying to give the studio ideas or anything, but if they really wanted to try and squeeze as much money out of this franchise as they could, the only other potential movie I can think of would be to do something about Aragorn during his younger days, when he's first made aware of his heritage and when he first meets Arwen. After that he went off and had several adventures, such as serving King Thengel in Rohan, clashing with young Denethor in Gondor, etc. They could also incorporate Aragorn's search for Gollum after he escaped Barad-dr; he eventually caught Gollum and gave him over to the Elves in Mirkwood, from whom Gollum later escaped.

I'm not saying I'm absolutely in favor of such a thing happening, but if they really, really did want to do another movie after these, that's probably their best option.
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Old December 23 2011, 12:44 AM   #499
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

V wrote: View Post
One point I like, which comes from expanding the screentime a bit, is that they want to play up the Elf-Dwarf mistrust as a major theme of the story here.
That would certainly explain this shot:



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Old December 23 2011, 01:53 AM   #500
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

The Grinch Doctor wrote: View Post
I agree. I don't think they'll do a bridge film at this point and The Silmarillion won't be made any time soon because Christopher Tolkien has the rights to them.
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The Silmarillion would be problematic given the lack of a consistent cast of characters throughout.
I've said it before (possibly in this very thread) but I think the Silmarillion (or rather parts of it) would be great for something akin to the Animatrix or Gotham Knights DVDs. But yeah, getting the rights would be difficult and if they were going to do something like that then they would've had to have made a start on it already if they intended it to be released ahead of, or even between the movies.
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Old December 23 2011, 01:53 AM   #501
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

V wrote: View Post
One point I like, which comes from expanding the screentime a bit, is that they want to play up the Elf-Dwarf mistrust as a major theme of the story here.

That is, because Tolkien hadn't written LOTR yet when he made "The Hobbit", the Elves are kind of funny in it (singing in Rivendell) -- only later would he explain the Elf-Dwarf hatred.
Though this is a good observation, Tolkien explains quite a bit of the dwarf/elf animosity right there in The Hobbit:

"In ancient days they (the Elves) had had wars with some of the dwarves, whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay."
The Hobbit, page 168
The actual story of this event can be found in The Silmarillion, specifically "Of The Ruin of Doriath." The elf-king Thingol contracts with some dwarves to set a silmaril into a necklace called the nauglimir, which had been made by the dwarves for a fellow elf-king who was now dead. The dwarves try to steal it, claiming ownership, as well as lured by the silmaril, and they assassinate Thingol when he protests. Thus began the hatred between elves and dwarves.

When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, much of the stories that would later be published in The Silmarillion were already extant in one form or another. So he made little connections throughout what was supposed to be a children's story to his greater legendarium, including the way Elrond notes that Gandalf and Thorin's swords once belonged to his great-grandfather Turgon, the elf-king of Gondolin.
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Last edited by InklingStar; December 23 2011 at 02:13 AM. Reason: Corrected some elvish genealogy.
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Old December 23 2011, 02:10 AM   #502
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

And of course, Sting was also from Gondolin.
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Old December 23 2011, 03:05 AM   #503
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Hey, if Hobbit 1&2 are as great as they seem I don't see any reason why TPTB wouldn't try to work out a deal and do something with the Silmarillion. Cash Cow, keep it milking as long as you can. Even if it's just one movie to test the waters. It's my understanding that it's a collection of tales right? So if something is done with part of it, it's a hit, try and do another.
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Old December 23 2011, 03:36 AM   #504
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
Hey, if Hobbit 1&2 are as great as they seem I don't see any reason why TPTB wouldn't try to work out a deal and do something with the Silmarillion. Cash Cow, keep it milking as long as you can. Even if it's just one movie to test the waters. It's my understanding that it's a collection of tales right? So if something is done with part of it, it's a hit, try and do another.
Grief counselors will be standing by at theaters showing The Children of Hurin...
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Old December 23 2011, 04:18 AM   #505
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I had to wiki Children of Hurin.
I'm not getting the grief counselor thing.
Is this because Tolkein didn't actually finish Hurin himself?
How does that tie into what I suggested about Silmarillion?
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Old December 23 2011, 04:28 AM   #506
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I'm not getting the grief counselor thing.
It's a tragedy.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:05 AM   #507
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
nvek86 wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
I'm still not entirely convinced that they won't do that "bridge film" that was originally rumored to be the second part of this film project (before they instead decided to split The Hobbit). The studio's going to look at all that money these two movies will bring in and go "Why not make another one?"
I thought they already incorporated all/most of the "bridge film" stuff into the "Hobbit" (like what was Gandalf up to, the attack of the White Council,...)?
I mean: It's possible of course, but they are running out of things they have the rights to.
Not that I'm trying to give the studio ideas or anything, but if they really wanted to try and squeeze as much money out of this franchise as they could, the only other potential movie I can think of would be to do something about Aragorn during his younger days, when he's first made aware of his heritage and when he first meets Arwen. After that he went off and had several adventures, such as serving King Thengel in Rohan, clashing with young Denethor in Gondor, etc. They could also incorporate Aragorn's search for Gollum after he escaped Barad-dr; he eventually caught Gollum and gave him over to the Elves in Mirkwood, from whom Gollum later escaped.

I'm not saying I'm absolutely in favor of such a thing happening, but if they really, really did want to do another movie after these, that's probably their best option.
But at the end of the day, all of those vignettes don't add up to a whole story. I don't see a bridging film really working in regards to just Aragorn or really anyone in general.

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
Hey, if Hobbit 1&2 are as great as they seem I don't see any reason why TPTB wouldn't try to work out a deal and do something with the Silmarillion. Cash Cow, keep it milking as long as you can. Even if it's just one movie to test the waters. It's my understanding that it's a collection of tales right? So if something is done with part of it, it's a hit, try and do another.
That's not going to happen because Christopher Tolkien has such a strong disdain with PJ's take on his father's work that he would never release the rights. Christopher believes that his father's work can not be properly transferred to the silver screen to do the work justice.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:11 AM   #508
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

The Grinch Doctor wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
Hey, if Hobbit 1&2 are as great as they seem I don't see any reason why TPTB wouldn't try to work out a deal and do something with the Silmarillion. Cash Cow, keep it milking as long as you can. Even if it's just one movie to test the waters. It's my understanding that it's a collection of tales right? So if something is done with part of it, it's a hit, try and do another.
That's not going to happen because Christopher Tolkien has such a strong disdain with PJ's take on his father's work that he would never release the rights. Christopher believes that his father's work can not be properly transferred to the silver screen to do the work justice.
Wow, really? He doesn't think PJ's take has done his fathers work any justice? I know I'm not a dyed in the wool fan but they are beautiful films that capture what I know of them. So basically Christopher is the Alan Moore of his own universe. It's not like Uwe Boll is adapting them.
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Old December 23 2011, 05:44 AM   #509
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
So basically Christopher is the Alan Moore of his own universe.
Yeah, that more or less sums it up, unfortunately.
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Old December 23 2011, 06:00 AM   #510
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

The Grinch Doctor wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
nvek86 wrote: View Post
I thought they already incorporated all/most of the "bridge film" stuff into the "Hobbit" (like what was Gandalf up to, the attack of the White Council,...)?
I mean: It's possible of course, but they are running out of things they have the rights to.
Not that I'm trying to give the studio ideas or anything, but if they really wanted to try and squeeze as much money out of this franchise as they could, the only other potential movie I can think of would be to do something about Aragorn during his younger days, when he's first made aware of his heritage and when he first meets Arwen. After that he went off and had several adventures, such as serving King Thengel in Rohan, clashing with young Denethor in Gondor, etc. They could also incorporate Aragorn's search for Gollum after he escaped Barad-dr; he eventually caught Gollum and gave him over to the Elves in Mirkwood, from whom Gollum later escaped.

I'm not saying I'm absolutely in favor of such a thing happening, but if they really, really did want to do another movie after these, that's probably their best option.
But at the end of the day, all of those vignettes don't add up to a whole story. I don't see a bridging film really working in regards to just Aragorn or really anyone in general.
Agreed.

It would work better as a TV series.
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