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Old March 18 2011, 04:51 PM   #16
ProwlAlpha
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

I always kind of wondered why there is name tag and department identifier on Star Trek. The three colors are too generalized. I used think that the comm badges would communicate that data when an unfamiliar officer or an enlisted person from an different department would interact. Now, I don't think so.
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Old March 18 2011, 05:04 PM   #17
Kaziarl
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

ProwlAlpha wrote: View Post
I always kind of wondered why there is name tag and department identifier on Star Trek. The three colors are too generalized. I used think that the comm badges would communicate that data when an unfamiliar officer or an enlisted person from an different department would interact. Now, I don't think so.
They kind of did in the original series. Although it wasn't any more specific then the color of the uniforms themselves. The delta shape that we've come to know to represent Starfleet as an organization used to be specific to the Enterprise. Also, there was a symbol on each one that was supposed to designate department.

But again, it wasn't really any more specific then the uniform colors. Gold color/Star symbol for Command and Operations. Red/Spiral for Engineering and Security. and Blue/sphere (looks like it's supposed to be a sphere anyway.) for Science and Medical.

In contrast, the army has all sorts of different insignia depending on what job you have. The signal flags for communications as an example.

I think it would make sense to have these different roles cleared up, I mean you wouldn't want to accidentally drag an astrophysicist to a major surgery. Right? But again, if they thought of it the budget probably limited them. Not to mention being able to see that kind of detail. I didn't even know about the symbols until I got my hands on one of the TOS manuals that actually had the patterns to make your own uniform.
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Old March 18 2011, 06:23 PM   #18
C.E. Evans
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

The often maligned TMP uniforms were extremely specialized, both by shipboard department and Starfleet division apparently...
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Old March 18 2011, 06:41 PM   #19
ProwlAlpha
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Which was why they have departmental pins and badges in today's military. I misspoke earlier, I actually meant I wonder why there isnt a name tag or a departmental pin. I get that about the Delta, but it is kind of disrespectful to address an unknown officer or crew member by just their rank. Besides, if you are coming into engineering and start addressing the first mustard-colored uniform, how do you know that this ensign is a member of a separate dept and don't even work in that area. A nice dept identified would be helpful and I assume only the main characters and recurring characters can do everything in engineering, science, command, or whatever. Not some transporter tech or a just low level computer officer know anything about warp integrity fields or a waste-disposal.
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Old March 18 2011, 07:30 PM   #20
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Tarek71 wrote: View Post
Continuing from the Pre-Federation starfleet design, a little bridge-gapping. With very meagre graphic skills, here is the first attempt. The Command and Medical uniforms. Science and Engineering not finished yet. I havent added any insignia to the medical uniform yet. The free hand drawn breast patch looks wonky, but gives you an idea. May still have a shoulder patch at some point.
These are pretty cool, but maybe a little too much too soon? I think a more gradual bridging would work better in this early stage of Starfleet's development. Maybe instead of making the whole top gold for command, red for engineering, etc., maybe they still wear a blue jacket (with black pants) with the colored shoulder piping, and then instead of the black undershirt they wore in ENT, maybe the undershirt is gold/red/blue/green based on their department?
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Old March 18 2011, 10:14 PM   #21
Tarek71
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

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Regarding the Daedalus-era uniforms, have you considered trying them in more Kelvin-like colors, or hybrid colors of some sort?
I have. Im not sure what to make of the Kelvin uniforms, or the the ST XI uniforms in general. I think these ones Ive put up here work best as the bridge between Enterprise and TOS eras. I also wanted it to make some sense as pre-Kelvin.

When I first saw the movie and saw some kind of blue as the color worn by the Captain and Kirk Sr., I immediately thought of TMP, where you also see command officers wearing blue (sometimes). Later in ST XI you see Pike wearing one Admiral Kirks TMP uniforms.

Blue was not the command color in TMP, but It seemed like it was in 2233. In fact the TMP colors and designs seemed to have some surprising influence in Trek XI. In addition to the blue for the Kelvin, you also had some copper or rusty toned as well. This also seemed TMP inspired. With a generous helping of elbow grease one can make a transition from 2161->2233->2258 uniforms. But I think whats put above is a better bridge, while still not completely clashing with the Kelvin era in terms of style.

Somewhere along the line, blue became Command and then went back to Gold again. I dont know what happened there. For all we know the Kelvin uniforms, like the TMP uniforms, had a fairly short shelf life, and then they went right back to the familiar departmental colors. Hard to say with just a little sliver of time to go by.

Last edited by Tarek71; March 18 2011 at 10:35 PM.
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Old March 18 2011, 10:28 PM   #22
Kaziarl
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Tarek71 wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post
Regarding the Daedalus-era uniforms, have you considered trying them in more Kelvin-like colors, or hybrid colors of some sort?
I have. Im not sure what to make of the Kelvin uniforms, or the the ST XI uniforms in general. I think these ones Ive put up here work best as the bridge between Enterprise and TOS eras. I also wanted it to make some sense as pre-Kelvin.

When I first saw the movie and saw some kind of blue as the color worn by the Captain and Kirk Sr., I immediately thought of TMP, where you also see command officers wearing blue (sometimes). Later in ST XI you see Pike wearing one Admiral Kirks TMP uniforms.

Blue was not the command color in TMP, but It seemed like it was in 2233. In fact the TMP colors and designs seemed to have some surprising influence in Trek XI. In addition to the blue for the Kelvin, you also had some copper or rusty toned as well. This also seemed TMP inspired. With a generous helping of elbow grease one can make a transition from 2161->2233->2258 uniforms. But I think whats put above is a better bridge, while still not completely clashing with the Kelvin era.
Actually I thought the Kelvin uniforms worked just fine as an in between. The Enterprise uniforms were a blue jumpsuit, so the Kelvin uniforms could have been more of a two piece uniform like we see in TOS, but prior to them using the separate departmental colors. And considering the lighting, I suppose they might have had the colors shown somehow, like we see with the Enterprise jumpsuits. But it was hard to see.

With that being said, I think you've done a great job here.
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Old March 18 2011, 11:39 PM   #23
Quantum_Penguin
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Tarek71 wrote: View Post
Somewhere along the line, blue became Command and then went back to Gold again. I dont know what happened there. For all we know the Kelvin uniforms, like the TMP uniforms, had a fairly short shelf life, and then they went right back to the familiar departmental colors. Hard to say with just a little sliver of time to go by.
I remember a thread on here a while back where it was suggested that the reason red became the command color in TNG is because the red movie era uniforms were so closely associated with Starfleet. Indeed, they appear to have been in use for nearly fifty years before the advent of the TNG uniforms. So if you were a non-aligned species and you'd heard of Starfleet, you'd probably heard they all ran around in these red uniforms, so the brass decided that command officers, especially captains, should be immediately recognizable as Starfleet.

So, perhaps the ENT blue jumpsuit was so closely associated with Earth Starfleet in the minds of Federation member species that the newly minted UFP Starfleet initially adopted the department colors as the main color of the uniform to seem more inclusive. However, just like with the monster maroons, the association with blue and humans remained in the minds of non-member species. Perhaps ambassadors, having heard that these "Earthmen" wear blue, thought the actual captain was with some other group and would treat the science officer as the captain. To avoid confusion but keep the practical use of department color uniforms, sometime prior to 2233 the command color became blue.

This would actually dovetail nicely with the blue-grey field jackets and blue dress uniform cap in Pike's quarters from "The Cage". Perhaps Starfleet of the 2250's switched to a kind of "dress blue" which they normally wore when encountering a new species for the first time and this eventually evolved back into the original scheme as Starfleet and the Federation became more widely known.

Sorry, that was long, but that's my two cents

On that matter, are you planning to also do field and dress uniforms of some kind?
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Old March 19 2011, 06:19 AM   #24
Tarek71
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Quantum_Penguin wrote: View Post
On that matter, are you planning to also do field and dress uniforms of some kind?
Yes indeed. Right now Im trying to make an Admiral Archer uniform. Im looking at the uniform of Admiral Forrest for inspiration. Maybe Commodore Archer first. I like that rank, and we dont have to eliminate it because the US Navy did. Rear Admiral "Lower Half"? Never did like that much. Anyway, its the Flag Officer uniform.

In addition, yes, the field and dress uniforms as well and others besides. I dont see much reason to change some things, like the spacesuits. This is supposed to be 2161, weeks or months after the Federation is formed, so things should still look very much like they did up until then.
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Old March 19 2011, 06:30 AM   #25
Tarek71
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Tarek71 wrote: View Post
Continuing from the Pre-Federation starfleet design, a little bridge-gapping. With very meagre graphic skills, here is the first attempt. The Command and Medical uniforms. Science and Engineering not finished yet. I havent added any insignia to the medical uniform yet. The free hand drawn breast patch looks wonky, but gives you an idea. May still have a shoulder patch at some point.
These are pretty cool, but maybe a little too much too soon? I think a more gradual bridging would work better in this early stage of Starfleet's development. Maybe instead of making the whole top gold for command, red for engineering, etc., maybe they still wear a blue jacket (with black pants) with the colored shoulder piping, and then instead of the black undershirt they wore in ENT, maybe the undershirt is gold/red/blue/green based on their department?
Thats a possibility. There are certainly other ways to go about this. But I think this isnt too dramatic. Its basically making the border color black and the tunic into the old border colors plus the breast patches. I dont think thats too jarring. Its also two separate pieces instead of a jumper.

Aside from that, they should still resemble the previous uniform. And of course, I picture the rest of the uniform set as likewise sharing a close relationship. The field jackets will be the same style, the spacesuits the same. And of course I picture the interiors, control surfaces, etc of the Daedalus as strongly resembing the NX-types.

Taken together, I think if you saw them in these uniforms and in that sort of environment, I think it would make a fairly smooth transition from the Enterprise era.
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Old March 19 2011, 11:44 AM   #26
Maurice
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Well, as I posted a while back, I'd done some pre-TOS concepts for a proposed Trek videogame back in the 90s:

DS9Sega wrote: View Post
Below are some of the concept drawings for the game, which had the working title:


...



I did sketches of uniforms that were a little more severe than the TOS ones, and borrowed the "belt" from Kirk's first TOS wraparound shirt that ended with a sideways delta, and adapted that as a uniform motif for the UESPA forces, using the "boomerang" shape seen on the Enterprise pennants. I repeated this on the bindings for the boots, with the boomerangs acting as buckles.

.....

Found some more uniform sketches. This was a dress uniform variant. I had the idea of using the little triangular ribbons from the TOS dress uniforms arranged to imply the later delta insignia. There's another communicator, and a Jefferies-proportioned Daedalus doodle as well.

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Old March 19 2011, 06:12 PM   #27
Kaziarl
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

I dunno, that UESPA uniform looks more like it would be a lead in between TMP and TWOK.
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Old March 19 2011, 06:17 PM   #28
Solarbaby
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

I love these uniforms, Perfect progression between Ent and TOS
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Old March 19 2011, 06:39 PM   #29
Ensign Ro-
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

Very, very nice work. I'm designing a new motion comic that I plan to write and produce. I also tried to create a transition uniform. My design is a blend of the TOS and movie era uniforms.


Last edited by Ensign Ro-; March 19 2011 at 06:42 PM. Reason: link not working
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Old March 19 2011, 06:44 PM   #30
Ensign Ro-
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Re: Daedalus Era Uniforms

I don't know why, but I have the hardest time posting images on this site. Anyway, here's a link to the designs I mentioned above...

http://browse.deviantart.com/?order=...signs#/d3bxbg3
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