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Old March 10 2011, 12:46 AM   #1
Cmdr Shepard
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I'm changing my politcal lean

Let me start by saying that I've been a conservative and Republican my entire adult life, but lately I have been finding myself veering away from the Grand Old Party. Conservativism is, or at least was, based on the principle of a small government that provides people with both personal and economic freedoms. Unfortunately now being a conservative seemingly means that you you want a big and powerful government, just like the liberals want. Initially I supported the status quo, keeping everything the way it has been, since while the world most certainly isn't perfect, it's still around and America is still the best and most powerful hegemony in the world.

Being a conservative has always meant that you disagree with the liberals, but now you're not only supposed to disagree with them, but you're supposed to hate them, harass them, and blame everything that ever goes wrong on them. These new leaders of conservativism such as Sarah Palin, they don't represent what I believe in. I have some very differing political beliefs, incorporating ideas from both parties.

For instance, I support gun ownership, abortion, animal rights, stem cell research, eugenics, genetics, Jonathanland independence, LGBT rights, prostitution, marijuana legalization, human cloning, womens' rights, teen rights, space exploration, energy conservation, environmental protection, Americanization, globalization, sexual freedoms, NATO, pro-Israel, pro-South Korea, lowering the age of consent to 13, and lowering the drinking age to 18. However I'm opposed to illegal immigration, censorship, government surveillance, recognition of the Palestinian Territories, terrorism, school uniforms, slavery, unethical business practices, creating an unfriendly environment for businesses, pork barrel projects, rewriting the US Constitution, Muslims who want special treatment, Westboro not-Baptist Church, and the death penalty. I'm mixed on issues such as the War on Terrorism, massive military spending, socialized healthcare, NAFTA, ban of fully automatic weapons, and socialized education. So I really just don't know where I stand anymore and am changing my political lean to independent.
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Old March 10 2011, 01:06 AM   #2
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
Being a conservative has always meant that you disagree with the liberals, but now you're not only supposed to disagree with them, but you're supposed to hate them, harass them, and blame everything that ever goes wrong on them. These new leaders of conservativism such as Sarah Palin, they don't represent what I believe in.
They don't represent true conservatism either. The Tea Party is less about being a conservative and more about being what I would call a "jackass".
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Old March 10 2011, 01:19 AM   #3
Gaith
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

That's, uh, quite a soup of positions you've got there...
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Old March 10 2011, 01:20 AM   #4
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

^ This is my position on soup: It's delicious.
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Old March 10 2011, 01:24 AM   #5
Tora Ziyal
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
So I really just don't know where I stand anymore and am changing my political lean to independent.
Independent is a healthy place to be. It forces you to think about the specific issues and specific candidates.
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Old March 10 2011, 01:28 AM   #6
C.E. Evans
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

A wise man once said, "Don't vote--it only encourages them."
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Old March 10 2011, 01:30 AM   #7
Trekker4747
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

I had always been confused on the whole "Republicans want less government", "Democrats want more government" thing becuase my views were looking at it from the wrong angle.

Republicans want less government, mostly, in terms of your financial life and how much the government taxes you and takes that tax money to fund various services and programs. But they want "more" government in the way of controlling your way of life, i.e. being against receational drug use, abortion and same-sex marriage. In otherwords they're "less government in my wallet, more government in my pants!"

Democrats, on the otherhand, want more government in terms of taking taxes and using that tax money to give people, society, a better life. And, naturally, since they have more to give most of that tax revenue comes from the rich to fund programs that help the poorer or middle class. I'm okay with that and, sure, I say that as a middle-class person but I'd still be okay with it if I was rich. If I got the money to give and make lives better that's great. But the thinking of some rich is that they worked for their money and to-hell with using any of it to help less-fortuante people in any meaningful way; and giving 5% of your income to a charity that provides collected can-goods and day-old bread to poor people isn't exactly helping people in the greatest of ways.

Democrats also, on the whole, want people to have the freedom to make choices, live their lives as they want to see fit. Smoke pot, gamble, sleep with hookers, have abortions just try and be a bit responsible about all of it.

Democrats want more government in your wallet and less government in your pants.

I prefer the latter over the former, I well paid but I can also afford to pay a few extra dollars of taxes every month to ensure some people getting friggin' health care.

Republicans this past year fought STRONGLY against a 3% tax raise to the wealthiest of Americans, I would think for someone making over 250K a 3% raise wouldn't be too hard of a hit, at least it shouldn't be if you're living responsibly.

I'm do not advocate "punishing the rich" for being sucessful through taxing them greatly it's just that they can better "afford" to lose the money. A person making 30,000 a year paying 10% of his wages out to taxes now makes 27,000 a year an impact that could make a person's life difficult. A person making 250,000 a year now makes 225,000 a year which should still be a sufficent living.

But some act like that'd be an enormous hardship on rich people and it's not fair that that poorer person needs more of their money to subsist.
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Old March 10 2011, 01:45 AM   #8
Jax
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

GOP are really weird and I can understand why they would put off so many people, from the outside they look like wacko's.

* Bang on about the budget but demand Bush Tax Cuts for people earning over $250,000k despite the fact it would plug a MASSIVE gap in the budget deficit

* They seem to want such a small government, would do they plan on doing for 4 or 8 year terms...just sit there

* They are so paranoid over public options replacing Private ones

* They seem to want to throw out state superceeds Chruch

* Bang on about personal freedoms but seem to curtail it at every point.

* There so ANTI teacher am surprised they don't start knocking down schools

* There sance on welfare, gay rights and UHC is nothing short of seemingly being just mean mean evil spirited bastards

I could go on...
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Old March 10 2011, 01:56 AM   #9
RAMA
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
Let me start by saying that I've been a conservative and Republican my entire adult life, but lately I have been finding myself veering away from the Grand Old Party. Conservativism is, or at least was, based on the principle of a small government that provides people with both personal and economic freedoms. Unfortunately now being a conservative seemingly means that you you want a big and powerful government, just like the liberals want. Initially I supported the status quo, keeping everything the way it has been, since while the world most certainly isn't perfect, it's still around and America is still the best and most powerful hegemony in the world.

Being a conservative has always meant that you disagree with the liberals, but now you're not only supposed to disagree with them, but you're supposed to hate them, harass them, and blame everything that ever goes wrong on them. These new leaders of conservativism such as Sarah Palin, they don't represent what I believe in. I have some very differing political beliefs, incorporating ideas from both parties.

For instance, I support gun ownership, abortion, animal rights, stem cell research, eugenics, genetics, Jonathanland independence, LGBT rights, prostitution, marijuana legalization, human cloning, womens' rights, teen rights, space exploration, energy conservation, environmental protection, Americanization, globalization, sexual freedoms, NATO, pro-Israel, pro-South Korea, lowering the age of consent to 13, and lowering the drinking age to 18. However I'm opposed to illegal immigration, censorship, government surveillance, recognition of the Palestinian Territories, terrorism, school uniforms, slavery, unethical business practices, creating an unfriendly environment for businesses, pork barrel projects, rewriting the US Constitution, Muslims who want special treatment, Westboro not-Baptist Church, and the death penalty. I'm mixed on issues such as the War on Terrorism, massive military spending, socialized healthcare, NAFTA, ban of fully automatic weapons, and socialized education. So I really just don't know where I stand anymore and am changing my political lean to independent.
I really dont know if I should take this seriously...you support the age of consent at 13?? Wow there's a dangerous way to go right there.

RAMA
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Old March 10 2011, 02:09 AM   #10
J. Allen
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

RAMA wrote: View Post
Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
Let me start by saying that I've been a conservative and Republican my entire adult life, but lately I have been finding myself veering away from the Grand Old Party. Conservativism is, or at least was, based on the principle of a small government that provides people with both personal and economic freedoms. Unfortunately now being a conservative seemingly means that you you want a big and powerful government, just like the liberals want. Initially I supported the status quo, keeping everything the way it has been, since while the world most certainly isn't perfect, it's still around and America is still the best and most powerful hegemony in the world.

Being a conservative has always meant that you disagree with the liberals, but now you're not only supposed to disagree with them, but you're supposed to hate them, harass them, and blame everything that ever goes wrong on them. These new leaders of conservativism such as Sarah Palin, they don't represent what I believe in. I have some very differing political beliefs, incorporating ideas from both parties.

For instance, I support gun ownership, abortion, animal rights, stem cell research, eugenics, genetics, Jonathanland independence, LGBT rights, prostitution, marijuana legalization, human cloning, womens' rights, teen rights, space exploration, energy conservation, environmental protection, Americanization, globalization, sexual freedoms, NATO, pro-Israel, pro-South Korea, lowering the age of consent to 13, and lowering the drinking age to 18. However I'm opposed to illegal immigration, censorship, government surveillance, recognition of the Palestinian Territories, terrorism, school uniforms, slavery, unethical business practices, creating an unfriendly environment for businesses, pork barrel projects, rewriting the US Constitution, Muslims who want special treatment, Westboro not-Baptist Church, and the death penalty. I'm mixed on issues such as the War on Terrorism, massive military spending, socialized healthcare, NAFTA, ban of fully automatic weapons, and socialized education. So I really just don't know where I stand anymore and am changing my political lean to independent.
I really dont know if I should take this seriously...you support the age of consent at 13?? Wow there's a dangerous way to go right there.

RAMA
Spain's age of consent is 13. Japan's is 13. In Italy and Austria it's 14. These are developed, civilized nations. They don't seem to be on the brink of annihilation or the end of their society. I'm not saying I'm in agreement with those ages, but it's hardly worth disregarding an idea out of hand simply because of the age itself in relation to other developed nations.
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Old March 10 2011, 03:04 AM   #11
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
Being a conservative has always meant that you disagree with the liberals, but now you're not only supposed to disagree with them, but you're supposed to hate them, harass them, and blame everything that ever goes wrong on them. These new leaders of conservativism such as Sarah Palin, they don't represent what I believe in.
They don't represent true conservatism either. The Tea Party is less about being a conservative and more about being what I would call a "jackass".
That's not even true of most of the Tea Party. There are indeed some loudmouthed jackasses who get a lot of coverage for BEING loudmouthed jackasses, but that is not representative of all who want the government to butt out of their lives.

Nor does being conservative mean hating those with whom you disagree. Let me be blunt: that is happening on BOTH sides of the aisle. The hatred, the disdain, and so forth is blatantly obvious. Why do you think so many debate threads here degenerate into vitriol and ridicule? Let me tell you, if only one side was doing it, it would come to a stop FAST. The only reason it goes on is because both sides keep shooting back. Nobody gets a free pass!
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Old March 10 2011, 06:46 AM   #12
Admiral Shran
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

^ Exactly. Just because some people in the Tea Party act like jackasses (the people holding signs showing Obama as Hitler really come to mind) doesn't mean that all of us in the Tea Party are like that. Conversely, just because some liberals act like jackasses (Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow really come to mind), I don't think all liberals are like that.

If you want a good idea of where I stand politically, watch some of these videos....

http://www.youtube.com/user/southern...r?blend=1&ob=4

I agree with just about everything this guy says.
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Old March 10 2011, 07:01 AM   #13
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
Conservativism is, or at least was, based on the principle of a small government that provides people with both personal and economic freedoms. Unfortunately now being a conservative seemingly means that you you want a big and powerful government, just like the liberals want.
It sounds like you're equating conservatism with being a republican. Those two things are not the same... and their similarities have have dwindled in recent decades.
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Old March 10 2011, 07:17 AM   #14
SG-17
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

I'd be interested to see your Political Compass Cmdr. Shepard.
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Old March 10 2011, 07:49 AM   #15
Roger Wilco
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Re: I'm changing my politcal lean

Cmdr Shepard wrote: View Post
For instance, I support [snip]
However I'm opposed to [snip]
I'm mixed on issues such as [snip]
Sounds to me that you're not changing anything, but that you already are a "liberal" and that you should look more carefully at what the politicians you vote for actually stand for instead of just looking at party id.

Most of your positions there are mainstream leftist by US standards, some even further left.
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