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Old June 30 2014, 11:25 PM   #91
Mytran
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Re: NX01 Refit

You mean like the pair of constantly flashing tubes on the Bridge? I could do without THOSE in my workplace, thank you! ;-)
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Old July 10 2014, 04:33 PM   #92
Richard Baker
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Re: NX01 Refit

Mytran wrote: View Post
You mean like the pair of constantly flashing tubes on the Bridge? I could do without THOSE in my workplace, thank you! ;-)
What on Earth are those stupid things supposed to do anyway? They also had them on the NX-01 Generation Ship encountered in 'E2'.

Maybe they were intended to cause epileptic seizures with the enemy when they were insulting each other Captain to Captain via the viewscreen...
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Old July 10 2014, 04:49 PM   #93
dub
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Re: NX01 Refit

TheSubCommander wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
The best angle on it is seen in Christopher's Babel Novel.

A flatter saucer might go better with that secondary hull.
This one?

http://www.startrek.com/uploads/asse...0c1b844b02.png

Oh wow! It looks a million times better from that angle! Too bad it looks so strange in the angle of the original post.
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Old July 10 2014, 07:24 PM   #94
Last Redshirt
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Re: NX01 Refit

I thought it improved a disgusting design. I really didn't like the original NX design, and thought it looked absolutely out of place in the universe. It didn't have the hero-ship feel like the TOS Enterprise or the Enterprise-D had.
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Old July 28 2014, 07:15 PM   #95
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Re: NX01 Refit

I never really found the NX design to have been. Really well thought out. I mean, it's the beginning of the warp era for humanity, and the essentially stick a nuclear reactor right next to where the crew sleeps. I always figured the early Starfleet ships had been designed with a secondary hull (that was continued through the centuries) to keep the engine away from the crew so that if anything happened, there would be some time to get the saucer seperated and most of the crew away from the problem.

Maybe by the time of TNG/DS9/Voyager the designers had designed something into the bulkheads, and implemented force fields,to protect the crew so they could stick the warp core next to the sleeping cabins.
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Old July 28 2014, 08:24 PM   #96
Ithekro
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Re: NX01 Refit

The NX has doors at the back of the ship to eject the warp core. The secondary hull was probably introduced to make this even safer following actual experience with Enterprise and Columbia.

The refit of Enterprise (NX-01) with a secondary hull to install a larger warp core for more sustained warp 5 (and possibly warp 6) flight would make some sense if they decided to keep Enterprise as a test bed ship, as well as their primary explorer. In theory, it would be faster to fit out an existing ship with this new hull, than build a totally new ship with it already installed. At least at the rate Starfleet seemed to be building Warp Five starships at that time. 6 months in refit beats out two or three years for a new construction. Especially if you have a need for more powerful ships due to the Romulans invading with slower ships.
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Old July 28 2014, 09:40 PM   #97
AirCommodore
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Re: NX01 Refit

Cpt. Porthos wrote: View Post
I know that recently Drexler did a refit design for the NX 01 that he had wished could have been used for season 5. I'm curious as to what everyone feels about the design I personally am still on the fence about it. i like parts and hate other parts

http://www.startrekorigins.de/wp-con...REFIT-0011.jpg
I wasn't a big fan of it. I think some of the updated Daedalus Class designs were pretty good. Where they gave it a hull type that was fairly consistent with the NX-01. I think we have moved into that era anyhow. It's a bit late in the day for the NX-01. I would prefer to see Admiral Archer and the early days of the Federation at this point.
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Old July 29 2014, 08:36 PM   #98
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Re: NX01 Refit

Ithekro wrote: View Post
The NX has doors at the back of the ship to eject the warp core. The secondary hull was probably introduced to make this even safer following actual experience with Enterprise and Columbia.
Even with doors to eject the core, how did they not know that there weren't any unknown forms of radiation emanating from the core that would affect the crew. Sure they might've been testing Warp 1, 2 and 3 starships for 90 years, but Warp 5 was, from the sounds of it, an all-new engine that was very different from any of the other Terran warp cores, or even Vulcan. I'm reminded of Trip's face in "In A Mirror Darkly" and his line about his grandkids glowing in the dark, or even back in "Broken Bow" where Hoshi asks if it is safe to be stand near the warp core!

But even where I live there's a nuclear reactor about 30 minutes to the north of me. Even the town it's located "in", it is still about 15 minutes from the town center so that if anything does go wrong the main population of the town has a chance to leave (really, who puts a nuclear reactor in the middle of town?). And that's why I think the NX design was poor.
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Old July 29 2014, 08:43 PM   #99
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: NX01 Refit

^ About that last bit, I always thought it was just a MU thing: that the Terran Empire was so gung-ho as to have very low (if any) safety standards. As long as the ship worked, they wouldn't care how or why; I doubt they had any kind of quality control.

The regular universe Starfleet, not being genocidally evil and all, would certainly care a lot more about safety.

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Mytran wrote: View Post
You mean like the pair of constantly flashing tubes on the Bridge? I could do without THOSE in my workplace, thank you! ;-)
What on Earth are those stupid things supposed to do anyway? They also had them on the NX-01 Generation Ship encountered in 'E2'.
The network probably made the showrunners add them, just so viewers could tell which version of the ship they were looking at.
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Old July 29 2014, 10:56 PM   #100
Ithekro
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Re: NX01 Refit

The Mirror Universe version rushed the NX-class out without the safety checks resulting in a bunch of extra Delta radiation (like what Captain Pike would get from an accident in the normal timeline). This is why they had at least nine of them in service by 2155 while Starfleet had barely pushed out the second ship. The Prime Universe version was delayed and delayed, so it is likely they took their time with the safety of the ship and crew.

Flashy tubes are a feature in some computer systems to make the user feel like it is doing something...kind of like the progress bar.
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Old July 30 2014, 01:04 AM   #101
tomswift2002
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Re: NX01 Refit

The Terran Empire may've been "gung ho", but in the Prime universe the technology is still NEW, and while they'd had 90 years experience with Warp 1 technology, humanity was still in its infancy with Warp technology, just like nowadays we are still in our infancy with nuclear technology. Sure we know more now about nuclear tech than we did in the 1940's, but it's still New technology. And in Enterprise, sure Starfleet would've taken safety precautions, but they would not have been the same safety precautions that were in place 200 years later when the Defiant-class was launched, because Starfleet would have very little safety information to go on in the 2140's/2150's, compared to the 2370's. And dropping the engine into a seperate hull would've made more sense from both a health and safety perspective.
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Old July 30 2014, 01:16 AM   #102
Ithekro
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Re: NX01 Refit

The learning curve happens over time.

The ships up to the NX-class have single bodies with the warp cores inside. It might be either experience with the Warp Five engine causes them to move the newer cores to a secondary hull, or the next warp core design after it proves more likely to have issues than the Archer Warp Five core, and thus the extra safety of separation is installed during the refit of the NX-class and many later classes of starships.

The fluff from Drexler suggests that the new core was not as tested as the Archer Warp Five core and thus to be save and have the means to get the ship home, they added the secondary hull with the new core inside, while leaving the original warp core in place in the primary hull. Thus, if the new core failed, they could drop the secondary hull and later start up the old core to get at least some form of warp travel back to a Starfleet base. They would probably not be able to go at Warp 4 or 5 with the secondary hull gone since there extra pod thing on the back would have been ditched with the secondary hull, so they'd be limited to maybe warp 3 without it. It was supposedly there to help balance the warp field at higher speed and to compensate for some sort of time related effect (Drexler makes reference to a line from "The Cage" about breaking the "time barrier" with the newer ships like Pike's Enterprise).
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Old July 30 2014, 10:03 PM   #103
tomswift2002
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Re: NX01 Refit

Ithekro wrote: View Post
The learning curve happens over time.

The ships up to the NX-class have single bodies with the warp cores inside. It might be either experience with the Warp Five engine causes them to move the newer cores to a secondary hull, or the next warp core design after it proves more likely to have issues than the Archer Warp Five core, and thus the extra safety of separation is installed during the refit of the NX-class and many later classes of starships.

The fluff from Drexler suggests that the new core was not as tested as the Archer Warp Five core and thus to be save and have the means to get the ship home, they added the secondary hull with the new core inside, while leaving the original warp core in place in the primary hull. Thus, if the new core failed, they could drop the secondary hull and later start up the old core to get at least some form of warp travel back to a Starfleet base. They would probably not be able to go at Warp 4 or 5 with the secondary hull gone since there extra pod thing on the back would have been ditched with the secondary hull, so they'd be limited to maybe warp 3 without it. It was supposedly there to help balance the warp field at higher speed and to compensate for some sort of time related effect (Drexler makes reference to a line from "The Cage" about breaking the "time barrier" with the newer ships like Pike's Enterprise).
But you are also forgetting about the handling of the waste from the warp core. Even in the 24th century Starfleet was having difficulty with the storage of the warp waste, as we saw when the terrorists took over the D at during the barrios sweep. As the terrorist noted, warp waste is extremely volatile, when his companion tried to handle the container like a football.. And with the ship most of the time nowhere near a waste drop-off center, they need to have a place to properly and safely store it. And early Warp engines would not have processed the matter/anti-matter and deuterium slush as efficiently as the later 23rd and 24th century ships. So the NX ships would've produced a lot more waste than their 24th century counterparts. And as Scotty pointed out in "Star Trek IV" there was no way to recrystallize the dilithium crystals until he created the way on their trip through time required it, so there would've also been a place needed for used dilithium crystals that had more shielding and was a high hazard area that would require people to enter in radiation suits.
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Old July 31 2014, 06:33 AM   #104
Ithekro
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Re: NX01 Refit

One would assume that those problems were not apparent or possibly didn't exist on the older warp drives, but became a large problems as they started going faster with higher consumption rates and larger warp cores.

This could be why the refit of the NX-class has a secondary hull, the larger warp core has other issues that the Archer core does not. Or the found the Archer core has long term problems and decided to move the cores to secondary hulls at that time.

However not all ships have secondary hulls. USS Reliant has no such external body for her warp core, and a many late 24th Century ships has been getting rid of or blending the secondary hull into the primary hull.
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Old July 31 2014, 07:20 PM   #105
AirCommodore
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Re: NX01 Refit

Well this is why you have auxiliary vessels. Not only ships to resupply with torpedoes, anti-matter, personnel or dilithium, but also ones that pick up waste, or stations where it can be offloaded. There would be no reason to lug it around.
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