RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,253
Posts: 5,348,910
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 626
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

IDW Publishing Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 25 2011, 05:11 AM   #1
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Trying to remember an episode.

Hi,
Trying to remember an episode of Voyager that dealt with an alternate reality version and main reality version of voyager. Not sure if I remember it right, but I think that the ship in one of the realities was destroyed but not before the Harry Kim of that reality making it to the surviving Voyager.

The reason I need help is that it occurred to me that this brings up a conundrum. Either main reality Voyager was destroyed and from that point on we are following "our" Harry Kim's adventures in an alternate reality - or - "our" Harry Kim died and from that point on "our" Voyager has alternate Harry Kim.

So, what am I remembering wrong?
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 05:26 AM   #2
JanewayRulz!
Vice Admiral
 
JanewayRulz!'s Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

Season 2, Deadlock

Harry and Ensign Wildman's new born babe died on the partially destroyed Voyager, and Harry Kim from the healthy Voyager ( that unfortunately was boarded by the vidians) carried THAT Ensign Wildman's baby to the damaged Voyager.

The ep ended with one of the most often quoted lines in Voyager...

JANEWAY: It's good to have you back, Ensign.
KIM: Thank you, I think.
JANEWAY: Something wrong?
KIM: I'm not sure. I mean, this isn't really my ship, and you're not really my captain. And yet, you are and there's no difference. But I know there's a difference. Or is there? It's all a little weird.
JANEWAY: Mister Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job.

You aren't remembering anything "wrong".
__________________
"But life is a battle: may we all be enabled to fight it well!" Charlotte Bronte
JanewayRulz! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 08:24 AM   #3
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

So, depending on your point of view, we could have been watching an alternate timeline for the final 5 seasons. Wooo, that makes the show that much easier to handle. So many travesties dismissed with a simple phrase: alternate timeline/universe.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 08:32 AM   #4
froot
Fleet Captain
 
froot's Avatar
 
Location: Guarding the Compound with the Grey Wardens
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

sojourner wrote: View Post
So, depending on your point of view, we could have been watching an alternate timeline for the final 5 seasons. Wooo, that makes the show that much easier to handle. So many travesties dismissed with a simple phrase: alternate timeline/universe.
No. It was not an alternate timeline. The ship itself was split in two. In the same timeline.

So, yes, you are remembering incorrectly.
froot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 09:43 AM   #5
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

A spacial scission was duplicatiing the matter of the ship but not the antimatter. i went through this last month...

EMH 2: She's still unconscious.
KES 2: I ran a microcellular scan. We're almost identical in every way.
JANEWAY 2: Almost?
EMH 2: There's a slight phase-shift in her DNA. Do you have any theory about where she came from?
JANEWAY 2: Not yet. But I intend to find out. Can you wake her?
EMH 2: I believe so.
Kes who travelled over, her Naomi died. She had the phaseshift in her dna. She was fake. The replacement Naomi and replacement Kim were both real mastermolds which did not have phaseshifts in their dna.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 02:52 PM   #6
Jeff O'Connor
Commodore
 
Jeff O'Connor's Avatar
 
Location: Tampa, FL
Send a message via AIM to Jeff O'Connor Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Jeff O'Connor
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

Funny thing, that episode. When I was a kid I always wanted a subscription to all the Star Trek magazines but, growing up poor, it wasn't going to happen. And yet somehow -- and I'll be damned if I can remember how -- I wound up with some special edition of the main magazine, as well as the issues for DS9 and VOY, from around the time "Deadlock" aired.

They had a big special on that one, so what with me being a kid, I took this to mean that it was an incredibly important 'event' episode and super-big.

I've never quite shaken that belief from my system, which is cool because, hey, it's a pretty good ep.
__________________
Star Trek
1966-
Jeff O'Connor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 06:02 PM   #7
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 06:05 PM   #8
BlobVanDam
Fleet Captain
 
BlobVanDam's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BlobVanDam Send a message via Yahoo to BlobVanDam
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

sojourner wrote: View Post
So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.
We'll go with fake Harry Kim. Somehow it just doesn't feel like he deserves to be real.
BlobVanDam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 06:44 PM   #9
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

sojourner wrote: View Post
So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.
No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 07:53 PM   #10
froot
Fleet Captain
 
froot's Avatar
 
Location: Guarding the Compound with the Grey Wardens
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

As a few folks mentioned, it is a pretty neat episode (I had no idea it was featured in a Trek mag!) It's worth a rewatch.
froot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 08:13 PM   #11
Vinkula
Lieutenant Commander
 
Vinkula's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

My favourite Season 2 episode (: And copying others, we aren't watching wrong Voyager. Well from season 4 Demon to Season 5's Course: Oblivion.
__________________
Janeway <3
Vinkula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 08:49 PM   #12
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

exodus wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.
No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.

Explain the phase shift in the dna of the duplicated crew?

The two crews are not identical.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 09:05 PM   #13
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.
No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.

Explain the phase shift in the dna of the duplicated crew?

The two crews are not identical.
According to the ep., they were.

Be'Lanna & Janeway said that both Voyager & crew were identical but joined by anti-matter. They couldn't even explain the phase shift in the show because when Harry asks about what is real and what isn't, they blantently don't even try answering it. So, it really doesn't mean anything.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 10:15 PM   #14
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

B'Elanna and Janeway were using their "eyes" to create such a supposition. Their eyes wouldn't be able to tell the difference between real and androids, real and holograms, real and quicksilver or real and surgically altered Romulans.

Human eyes, even Vulcan eyes and Klingon eyes are just shit for microcellular examination.

Kes on the other hand used a microcellular scanner to compare her otherself to what was on record as "normal" for the both of them.

Different.

Of course you can either say that imperfect copies were created, the originals were corrupted by the duplication process while creating perfect copies, or that initially they were identical until one crew/ship were shunted out of phase with the other so that they could coexist in the same space time which corrupted their DNA.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2011, 10:26 PM   #15
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Trying to remember an episode.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Of course you can either say that imperfect copies were created, the originals were corrupted by the duplication process while creating perfect copies, or that initially they were identical until one crew/ship were shunted out of phase with the other so that they could coexist in the same space time which corrupted their DNA.
However what I did say was they didn't bother to explain it, so it doesn't matter.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.