Trying to remember an episode.

sojourner · February 25 2011, 05:11 AM

Hi,
Trying to remember an episode of Voyager that dealt with an alternate reality version and main reality version of voyager. Not sure if I remember it right, but I think that the ship in one of the realities was destroyed but not before the Harry Kim of that reality making it to the surviving Voyager.

The reason I need help is that it occurred to me that this brings up a conundrum. Either main reality Voyager was destroyed and from that point on we are following "our" Harry Kim's adventures in an alternate reality - or - "our" Harry Kim died and from that point on "our" Voyager has alternate Harry Kim.

So, what am I remembering wrong?

JanewayRulz! · February 25 2011, 05:26 AM

Season 2, Deadlock

Harry and Ensign Wildman's new born babe died on the partially destroyed Voyager, and Harry Kim from the healthy Voyager ( that unfortunately was boarded by the vidians) carried THAT Ensign Wildman's baby to the damaged Voyager.

The ep ended with one of the most often quoted lines in Voyager...

JANEWAY: It's good to have you back, Ensign.
KIM: Thank you, I think.
JANEWAY: Something wrong?
KIM: I'm not sure. I mean, this isn't really my ship, and you're not really my captain. And yet, you are and there's no difference. But I know there's a difference. Or is there? It's all a little weird.
JANEWAY: Mister Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job.

You aren't remembering anything "wrong".

sojourner · February 25 2011, 08:24 AM

So, depending on your point of view, we could have been watching an alternate timeline for the final 5 seasons. Wooo, that makes the show that much easier to handle. So many travesties dismissed with a simple phrase: alternate timeline/universe.

froot · February 25 2011, 08:32 AM

sojourner wrote:

So, depending on your point of view, we could have been watching an alternate timeline for the final 5 seasons. Wooo, that makes the show that much easier to handle. So many travesties dismissed with a simple phrase: alternate timeline/universe.

No. It was not an alternate timeline. The ship itself was split in two. In the same timeline.

So, yes, you are remembering incorrectly.

Guy Gardener · February 25 2011, 09:43 AM

A spacial scission was duplicatiing the matter of the ship but not the antimatter. i went through this last month...

EMH 2: She's still unconscious.
KES 2: I ran a microcellular scan. We're almost identical in every way.
JANEWAY 2: Almost?
EMH 2: There's a slight phase-shift in her DNA. Do you have any theory about where she came from?
JANEWAY 2: Not yet. But I intend to find out. Can you wake her?
EMH 2: I believe so.

Kes who travelled over, her Naomi died. She had the phaseshift in her dna. She was fake. The replacement Naomi and replacement Kim were both real mastermolds which did not have phaseshifts in their dna.

Jeff O'Connor · February 25 2011, 02:52 PM

Funny thing, that episode. When I was a kid I always wanted a subscription to all the Star Trek magazines but, growing up poor, it wasn't going to happen. And yet somehow -- and I'll be damned if I can remember how -- I wound up with some special edition of the main magazine, as well as the issues for DS9 and VOY, from around the time "Deadlock" aired.

They had a big special on that one, so what with me being a kid, I took this to mean that it was an incredibly important 'event' episode and super-big.

I've never quite shaken that belief from my system, which is cool because, hey, it's a pretty good ep.

sojourner · February 25 2011, 06:02 PM

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.

BlobVanDam · February 25 2011, 06:05 PM

sojourner wrote:

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.

We'll go with fake Harry Kim. Somehow it just doesn't feel like he deserves to be real.

exodus · February 25 2011, 06:44 PM

sojourner wrote:

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.

No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.

froot · February 25 2011, 07:53 PM

As a few folks mentioned, it is a pretty neat episode (I had no idea it was featured in a Trek mag!) It's worth a rewatch.

Vinkula · February 25 2011, 08:13 PM

My favourite Season 2 episode (: And copying others, we aren't watching wrong Voyager. Well from season 4 Demon to Season 5's Course: Oblivion.

Guy Gardener · February 25 2011, 08:49 PM

exodus wrote:

sojourner wrote:

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.

No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.

Explain the phase shift in the dna of the duplicated crew?

The two crews are not identical.

exodus · February 25 2011, 09:05 PM

Guy Gardener wrote:

exodus wrote:

sojourner wrote:

So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard.

No, both Harry Kim & Voyager were real.
They were no more fake than Siamese twins are.

Seriously, just watch the ep. again.

Explain the phase shift in the dna of the duplicated crew?

The two crews are not identical.

According to the ep., they were.

Be'Lanna & Janeway said that both Voyager & crew were identical but joined by anti-matter. They couldn't even explain the phase shift in the show because when Harry asks about what is real and what isn't, they blantently don't even try answering it. So, it really doesn't mean anything.

Guy Gardener · February 25 2011, 10:15 PM

B'Elanna and Janeway were using their "eyes" to create such a supposition. Their eyes wouldn't be able to tell the difference between real and androids, real and holograms, real and quicksilver or real and surgically altered Romulans.

Human eyes, even Vulcan eyes and Klingon eyes are just shit for microcellular examination.

Kes on the other hand used a microcellular scanner to compare her otherself to what was on record as "normal" for the both of them.

Different.

Of course you can either say that imperfect copies were created, the originals were corrupted by the duplication process while creating perfect copies, or that initially they were identical until one crew/ship were shunted out of phase with the other so that they could coexist in the same space time which corrupted their DNA.

exodus · February 25 2011, 10:26 PM

Guy Gardener wrote:

Of course you can either say that imperfect copies were created, the originals were corrupted by the duplication process while creating perfect copies, or that initially they were identical until one crew/ship were shunted out of phase with the other so that they could coexist in the same space time which corrupted their DNA.

However what I did say was they didn't bother to explain it, so it doesn't matter.

February 25 2011, 05:11 AM	#1
sojourner Vice Admiral Location: I'm at WKRP	Trying to remember an episode. Hi, Trying to remember an episode of Voyager that dealt with an alternate reality version and main reality version of voyager. Not sure if I remember it right, but I think that the ship in one of the realities was destroyed but not before the Harry Kim of that reality making it to the surviving Voyager. The reason I need help is that it occurred to me that this brings up a conundrum. Either main reality Voyager was destroyed and from that point on we are following "our" Harry Kim's adventures in an alternate reality - or - "our" Harry Kim died and from that point on "our" Voyager has alternate Harry Kim. So, what am I remembering wrong? __________________ Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...

February 25 2011, 05:26 AM	#2
JanewayRulz! Rear Admiral Location: North America	Re: Trying to remember an episode. Season 2, Deadlock Harry and Ensign Wildman's new born babe died on the partially destroyed Voyager, and Harry Kim from the healthy Voyager ( that unfortunately was boarded by the vidians) carried THAT Ensign Wildman's baby to the damaged Voyager. The ep ended with one of the most often quoted lines in Voyager... JANEWAY: It's good to have you back, Ensign. KIM: Thank you, I think. JANEWAY: Something wrong? KIM: I'm not sure. I mean, this isn't really my ship, and you're not really my captain. And yet, you are and there's no difference. But I know there's a difference. Or is there? It's all a little weird. JANEWAY: Mister Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job. You aren't remembering anything "wrong". __________________ "But life is a battle: may we all be enabled to fight it well!" Charlotte Bronte

February 25 2011, 08:24 AM	#3
sojourner Vice Admiral Location: I'm at WKRP	Re: Trying to remember an episode. So, depending on your point of view, we could have been watching an alternate timeline for the final 5 seasons. Wooo, that makes the show that much easier to handle. So many travesties dismissed with a simple phrase: alternate timeline/universe. __________________ Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...

February 25 2011, 02:52 PM	#6
Jeff O'Connor Commodore Location: Tampa, FL	Re: Trying to remember an episode. Funny thing, that episode. When I was a kid I always wanted a subscription to all the Star Trek magazines but, growing up poor, it wasn't going to happen. And yet somehow -- and I'll be damned if I can remember how -- I wound up with some special edition of the main magazine, as well as the issues for DS9 and VOY, from around the time "Deadlock" aired. They had a big special on that one, so what with me being a kid, I took this to mean that it was an incredibly important 'event' episode and super-big. I've never quite shaken that belief from my system, which is cool because, hey, it's a pretty good ep. __________________ Star Trek 1966-

February 25 2011, 06:02 PM	#7
sojourner Vice Admiral Location: I'm at WKRP	Re: Trying to remember an episode. So, its still sounds to me like we could have been following a "fake" voyager for 5 seasons. Or at least a real voyager with a fake Harry Kim onboard. __________________ Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...

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February 25 2011, 07:53 PM	#10
froot Fleet Captain Location: Guarding the Compound with the Grey Wardens	Re: Trying to remember an episode. As a few folks mentioned, it is a pretty neat episode (I had no idea it was featured in a Trek mag!) It's worth a rewatch.

February 25 2011, 08:13 PM	#11
Vinkula Lieutenant Commander Location: Finland	Re: Trying to remember an episode. My favourite Season 2 episode (: And copying others, we aren't watching wrong Voyager. Well from season 4 Demon to Season 5's Course: Oblivion. __________________ Janeway <3

February 25 2011, 10:15 PM	#14
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Trying to remember an episode. B'Elanna and Janeway were using their "eyes" to create such a supposition. Their eyes wouldn't be able to tell the difference between real and androids, real and holograms, real and quicksilver or real and surgically altered Romulans. Human eyes, even Vulcan eyes and Klingon eyes are just shit for microcellular examination. Kes on the other hand used a microcellular scanner to compare her otherself to what was on record as "normal" for the both of them. Different. Of course you can either say that imperfect copies were created, the originals were corrupted by the duplication process while creating perfect copies, or that initially they were identical until one crew/ship were shunted out of phase with the other so that they could coexist in the same space time which corrupted their DNA. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz