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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 26 2011, 05:58 AM   #151
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

W3ll if the numb3r thr33 starts showing up 3xc3ssivl3y in our posts, th3n w3 should d3finitl3y tak3 it as a sign.
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Old February 27 2011, 04:40 AM   #152
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Boris wrote: View Post
It is not logical if the ship resembles the TMP redesign, right down to window spacing.
Which it doesn't. Not even close.

I'm still not sure if the ship has 20-odd huge decks or 30-odd regular decks, and I should be.
Probably a mix of both, depending on what part of the ship you're in.
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Old February 27 2011, 04:45 AM   #153
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Vance wrote: View Post

That's one thing that always bothers me about threads like this (ignoring the obvious tone set at the beginning). Of course the sets, models, etc. won't line up. They were never built with the "reality" in mind - they were built as props for a television show or a movie! The fact that Star Trek even came close is a testament to those who have worked on the franchise.
True as that is, what's with all the vitriol directed at Abrams et al for "technical inconsistency" with the TOS universe? There's a parade of people who keep complaining about how "They ditched established canon just so because they wanted it to look cool!" and saying it like it's a bad thing.
There are a number of factors.

1) Previous Star Trek productions at least tried to be reasonably consistent. No, they weren't always successful, but at least there was an effort. With JJ, not only was there not an effort made, it seems that when an effort was made (coughcoughGeofferyMandelcoughcough), the person in question was immediately escorted off the studio lot. That's beyond not caring. That's showing an active disdain for anyone who's actually paying attention.
There's a big leap from "I read on a blog somewhere that some guy was fired for doing size comparisons of the old Enterprise" to "They showed active disdain for anyone who's actually paying attention." In fact, it's a pretty BIG damn leap when you consider that to this day we have only that one no-longer-existent (and in tone, sarcastic) blog post as a reference.

For all we know, Mandel was fired for squeezing Zoe Saldana's ample nacelles.

2) Trying to reconcile one side of the shop, where at least some effort was made to be consistent, with the other side, where wild inconsistencies appear to have been actively sought and encouraged, is on par with trying to reconcile the X-Men with Tom & Jerry.
Which is a big leap from a big leap and incomprehensible to me. It's like "I heard a rumor that you fired a guy because he said nice things about his homosexual friend... so how come you hate gay people?"
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Old March 18 2011, 12:02 PM   #154
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

So it's pretty obvious the new 2009 Enterprise was designed smaller, then scaled up to fit the sets and the shuttle bay scene. I can live with that fine. Is it really any different to the original Enterprise being scaled up to fit the bridge set into the new smaller dome? Otherwise The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone before have to take place on a totally different ship.

Going back to the original poster's point, which I believe was asking if there's any reason to stick to dogmatic established sizes (which is what Bernd has done) when we know interior sets and other evidence shows it to be impossible. I don't have a problem really deciding in the ST09 continuity, ships are bigger. The important thing is that they are internally relatively consistent, with the huge Kevlin and other Starfleet ships, and indeed the Narada.

It's a parallel universe where Kirk looks like Chris Pine instead of William Shatner. Everyone else looks totally different, apart from Nimoy from "our" universe. Surely splitting hairs over some vfx goofs whilst ignoring this is insane!
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Old March 20 2011, 03:03 AM   #155
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Tomalak wrote: View Post
Everyone else looks totally different, apart from Nimoy from "our" universe. Surely splitting hairs over some vfx goofs whilst ignoring this is insane!
This is Trekkies we're talking about, though. As a casual perusal of the Tech, Art and Trek XI fora can tell you, though the franchise is supposed to be about the "Human Adventure," for many fans, hypothetical nonsense tech has become more important than people.
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Old March 20 2011, 03:29 AM   #156
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
...though the franchise is supposed to be about the "Human Adventure," for many fans, hypothetical nonsense tech has become more important than people.
This could be the new motto for TrekBBS!
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Old March 21 2011, 02:26 AM   #157
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

I support this notion.
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Old April 12 2011, 11:33 PM   #158
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
... though the franchise is supposed to be about the "Human Adventure," for many fans, hypothetical nonsense tech has become more important than people.
Is it any more "hypothetical nonsense" than asking why Picard (a non-existent person) is supposed to be French but speaks with a very English accent?

Some people can get very vexed when storylines and characters/races do not fit with Canon, so why can't people get miffed when the Tech doesn't fit together properly?

After all, the USS Enterprise is as much a character in Star Trek as the "carbon units" are. IMHO

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Old April 13 2011, 12:52 AM   #159
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

And you can't have the "Human Adventure" that Trek portrays, without the tech!!!
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Old April 13 2011, 04:30 AM   #160
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Albertus wrote: View Post
Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
... though the franchise is supposed to be about the "Human Adventure," for many fans, hypothetical nonsense tech has become more important than people.
Is it any more "hypothetical nonsense" than asking why Picard (a non-existent person) is supposed to be French but speaks with a very English accent?

Some people can get very vexed when storylines and characters/races do not fit with Canon, so why can't people get miffed when the Tech doesn't fit together properly?

After all, the USS Enterprise is as much a character in Star Trek as the "carbon units" are. IMHO

Somewhat true, but when the Enterprise is the ONLY character that has any development, the result is usually a pretty crappy show.
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Old April 16 2011, 04:15 AM   #161
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

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OK, let me ask a serious question that I'm virtually certain is going to cause some outrage in certain posters...are the various ship lengths given on Ex Astris Scientia pretty much considered to be accurate, or at least the best compromise between competing valid sources?

If not, what source do you use?

I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I have a little file where I keep the ships broken down by class and I chart the various dimensions as given from various sources, whether they be tech manuals, websites (Ex Astris is my most used), Trekpedia, Starship Spotter, cutaway posters, etc. There's a fair amount of variation, but I've found it helpful when posting on Trek Tech to have that file handy.
Some of them I agree with others I don't.
I agree (despite the bridge) Excelsior is 467 meters.
I don't agree the Defiant is 120meters It has to be 170-200.

Lets say most of them are pretty accurate unless we have to make judgment calls.

I was able to confirm that the CGI artist did scale Defiant to 170 meters during it's Death Scenes




Intrepid was scaled to its known 344 meters and the life pod was fit just inside the hatch as shown in one episode. So since we know these are the same escape pods in Defiant I scaled Defiant according to the escape pod scenes and amazingly it came out to almost precisely 170 meters the first time. While the 120 meter Defiant can't fit this the two pods forward and the two pods aft. Soo despite ex atris analysis of the most common size there does seem to be a litteral opperation limit to how small Defiant should be.
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Old April 16 2011, 06:04 AM   #162
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Well, the hatch doors for the Voyager escape pods seem to be 4.26 m wide on the CGI, and in the nice images at drex files each door seems to be a little more than a foot wider on each side than the opening for the pod. If an escape pod is 3.5 meters wide, as stated and which works perfectly with a 120-meter Defiant, then a door on Voyager would calculate out to 14.76 inches wider on each side than the pod itself, which includes jam space (clearly visible in the drex files scenes of doors open and pods being launched) plus and small gap between the opening and the pod.

On the Voyager CGI (dorsal view) with overall length at 1130 pixels and most easily measured hatch door at 14 pixels, and with stated ship length of 344 meters:
(344 meters/1130 pixels) x 14 pixels = 4.26 meters door width
(344 meters/1130 pixels) x 1 pixel = .3 meter margin of error

In this drex files pictorial, you can clearly see the approximately 30" difference between door width and opening:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/...ss-escape-pod/
Intrepid CGI:
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2011/...cgi-pictorial/

Last edited by LCARS 24; April 16 2011 at 07:20 AM.
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Old April 16 2011, 07:47 AM   #163
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Hmmm. That implies an even larger Defiant
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Old April 16 2011, 07:55 AM   #164
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

Personally, I wouldn't trust the CG model of Voyager for anything. The sizes of some of the escape pod hatches aren't even consistent (at least, the 4 on the side towards the bridge are hugely off). Not that I don't trust your reasoning, it's just that the CG model of Voyager isn't very reliable.
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Old April 16 2011, 08:37 AM   #165
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Re: Ship sizes: ALL LIES! (big pics)

That's just to demonstrate that Voyager's escape pods don't have to be larger than the stated width of 3.5 meters. They might even be 3.5 for Voyager and 2.8 for a 120-meter Defiant and still look that same (as per Bernd's measurements and calculations, which I haven't tried to verify). Anyway, the designers effects people
don't always get their stories straight. Otherwise this thread might not even exist.

Show us your math. Bernd's calculations must have taken what I said about the doors into account, since he arrived at 3.5 meters (or he just took somebody's word for it).
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