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Old April 9 2011, 10:36 PM   #61
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

When I saw Tangled, I was thinking that there was a resemblance between Rapunzel and Helen/Elastigirl, as much in the motion and expressiveness of the features as in the design. It's not something that comes down to specific details so much as an overall similarity of design style, but I was reminded of Helen. Which was a plus, because Helen was a magnificently animated character, with amazing subtlety and detail to her facial expressions. And so was Rapunzel.
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Old April 10 2011, 05:50 AM   #62
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

For example, if I wanted to make a Repunzel movie right now, I can. Disney can't stop me. Just because they did their version doesn't mean that they own everything and anything that was, is, and will be Repunzel.
The point isn't that they're going to prevent you from creating new Rapunzel content. The point is that they're going to sue the shit out of you if you create new Mickey Mouse material despite the fact that Mickey should've fallen into the public domain YEARS ago.

Let me repeat this: Mickey Mouse should've fallen into public domain YEARS ago. And because Disney doesn't want to allow people to do with Mickey what they have done with Rapunzel (or more accurately, with Alice or OZ since Rapunzel has long since fallen into folklore territory), they lobby to keep extending copyright laws.

Their creation, Mickey, should be in the exact same place that Rapunzel is NOW. But they won't allow it. If I want to create Zombie Mickey and make a cartoon out it, I can't because Disney will not allow Mickey to fall into the public domain.

Apparently it's okay for the creations of others to fall into public domain to be exploited by others (like Disney), but not the reverse. That's called hypocrisy.

However, since you brought it up, if you crafted a design of, say, the Wicked Witch of the West and another person took your design, used it without your permission, and (arguably more importantly) profited off it, wouldn't you be upset? Or would you be cool with it since the character was from the public domain.
What does this have to do with anything? You're point here depends on characters ALREADY being in public domain. I'm not talking about characters ALREADY in the public domain, but Disney's fight to keep their characters from being in the public domain, while exploiting characters who are.

Those other works are in public domain NOT because there was no copyright law back then, but because there was a time limit on copyrights. Time has been up for Mickey for YEARS, but god forbid some else get to do with Mickey what Disney has done with the numerous non-Disney creations.

THAT'S the issue.

Copyrights are not new. Their origins go back as far as the 16th century.

There's another side to the question. Copyright law is about trying to balance two opposing factors. On the one hand, yes, ideas have to go back into the pool sooner or later. But on the other hand, creators deserve the right to profit from their creations while they're alive, and not to have them taken away arbitrarily. The idea behind copyright expiration was that the copyright would last until after the creators had died. But life expectancy is longer now than it was then, so there is some merit to the idea of expanding the duration of copyrights.

Of course, when the creator is defined as a corporation, something that has an open-ended life expectancy, then it becomes more of a problem. I will grant that. But it's not a completely one-sided question. Maybe copyrights shouldn't be unlimited, but they shouldn't be a mere 20 years either.
Good points and I agree....but I don't recall saying I supported twenty years as a limit...only that I believed that limit was twenty years at one time. Nor have I argued that creators rights should be arbitrarily stripped....after all why would I? I'm a creator as well. And yes, copyrights should not be unlimited, but should be longer than 20 years. I'm fine with "the life of the author".

I'm simply pointing out Disney's hypocrisy on the issue. This is not about "business sense". From that perspective, I understand why they do it. It makes it no less hypocritical.

It all comes from that great creative pool. Yes, it does get trickier with corporate entities being thrown into the picture. It gets even trickier when you throw trademarks in.

I'm not thrilled with some of the new copyright stuff that's come out in terms of "orphaned work" tho. IIRC, there are some scary implications in that. But that's a discussion for another thread.
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Old April 10 2011, 01:20 PM   #63
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Meh... as far as I'm concerned, Disney can keep the mouse, and the duck and the dogs and their other creations. I just wish they'd stop buying up everyone else's stuff like the Muppets and Marvel Comics.
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Old April 10 2011, 03:50 PM   #64
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

The Lensman wrote: View Post

Their creation, Mickey, should be in the exact same place that Rapunzel is NOW. But they won't allow it. If I want to create Zombie Mickey and make a cartoon out it, I can't because Disney will not allow Mickey to fall into the public domain.

Apparently it's okay for the creations of others to fall into public domain to be exploited by others (like Disney), but not the reverse. That's called hypocrisy.
I feel like you're just getting too hung up on the letter of the law in this case. It's not like the folks at Disney are just sitting around waiting for copyrights to expire so they can snatch up properties for their own use. They're taking fairy tales, stories that are hundreds and hundreds of years old, and re-telling them with a modern spin. The authors of the original properties are hardly upset about it.

And really, I think it should come down to the last time a character was used rather than when he was created. Mickey Mouse is not only copyrighted; he is trademarked. As long as Disney continues to use him, nobody else can. They released a brand new Mickey Mouse video game just last year. Now, if Mickey had just been sitting on a shelf in the basement for 20 years without any brand new material being made, I would agree with your argument. But since Disney is still using the character, I think it's perfectly fair that they be allowed to keep him.
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Old April 10 2011, 06:33 PM   #65
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
The Lensman wrote: View Post

Their creation, Mickey, should be in the exact same place that Rapunzel is NOW. But they won't allow it. If I want to create Zombie Mickey and make a cartoon out it, I can't because Disney will not allow Mickey to fall into the public domain.

Apparently it's okay for the creations of others to fall into public domain to be exploited by others (like Disney), but not the reverse. That's called hypocrisy.
I feel like you're just getting too hung up on the letter of the law in this case. It's not like the folks at Disney are just sitting around waiting for copyrights to expire so they can snatch up properties for their own use. They're taking fairy tales, stories that are hundreds and hundreds of years old, and re-telling them with a modern spin. The authors of the original properties are hardly upset about it.

And really, I think it should come down to the last time a character was used rather than when he was created. Mickey Mouse is not only copyrighted; he is trademarked. As long as Disney continues to use him, nobody else can. They released a brand new Mickey Mouse video game just last year. Now, if Mickey had just been sitting on a shelf in the basement for 20 years without any brand new material being made, I would agree with your argument. But since Disney is still using the character, I think it's perfectly fair that they be allowed to keep him.
This.
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Old April 10 2011, 06:43 PM   #66
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
The authors of the original properties are hardly upset about it.
I don't know; last I heard, the brothers who wrote the original Rapunzel are pretty grim about it.

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Old April 10 2011, 11:14 PM   #67
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Meh... as far as I'm concerned, Disney can keep the mouse, and the duck and the dogs and their other creations. I just wish they'd stop buying up everyone else's stuff like the Muppets and Marvel Comics.

But I want to do the Zombie appocalypse with the Disney characters! It'll be an allegory about how they "consume" everything in sight!

(walks off sad, shoulders slumped....kicks a small rock. Shakes fist at sky....)

"Diiiiiiissssneeeeeeyyyy!!!!!1!11!!!"
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Old April 10 2011, 11:55 PM   #68
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

The Lensman wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Meh... as far as I'm concerned, Disney can keep the mouse, and the duck and the dogs and their other creations. I just wish they'd stop buying up everyone else's stuff like the Muppets and Marvel Comics.

But I want to do the Zombie appocalypse with the Disney characters! It'll be an allegory about how they "consume" everything in sight!

(walks off sad, shoulders slumped....kicks a small rock. Shakes fist at sky....)

"Diiiiiiissssneeeeeeyyyy!!!!!1!11!!!"
Ah...see, you might be able to get away with that if being done as a parody. Even then, things can get tricky.
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Old April 11 2011, 07:47 AM   #69
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

But you *can* get away with that if its Hans Christian Anderson or Mark Twain or H.G. Wells or William Shakespeare or Edgar Rice Burroughs or Lewis Carroll's Alice creations or Baum's Oz creations or the Arabian Nights or the Phantom of the Opera or Dracula or...

But no, clearly the Mouse should never be allowed to be messed with.
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Old April 11 2011, 08:10 AM   #70
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Broccoli wrote: View Post
The Lensman wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Meh... as far as I'm concerned, Disney can keep the mouse, and the duck and the dogs and their other creations. I just wish they'd stop buying up everyone else's stuff like the Muppets and Marvel Comics.

But I want to do the Zombie appocalypse with the Disney characters! It'll be an allegory about how they "consume" everything in sight!

(walks off sad, shoulders slumped....kicks a small rock. Shakes fist at sky....)

"Diiiiiiissssneeeeeeyyyy!!!!!1!11!!!"
Ah...see, you might be able to get away with that if being done as a parody. Even then, things can get tricky.
I used to work in the copy biz, and every year Disney would send out letters that basically said "Don't even think about copying our stuff.....we will sue the living shit out of you."

So....yeah. There's that.

I'll stay faaaar away from their stuff.
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Old April 11 2011, 10:10 AM   #71
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

^ Maybe, but parody is protected and there isn't much Disney can do.

Take, for example, Mickey Mouse's very blatant, twisted appearance on South Park two seasons ago with no legal repercussions.
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Old April 15 2011, 10:33 PM   #72
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Broccoli wrote: View Post
The Lensman wrote: View Post
Upon seeing the first image of Rapunzel in this thread, my first thought was how much she looks like Elastigirl from "The Incredibles". Apparently I'm not the first that thought this, and yes, she looked better as a short haired brunette.


I don't see it.

.
I don't see it either. Rapunzel is much lovlier.
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Old April 16 2011, 12:13 AM   #73
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Well, that is a very unflattering picture of Elastigirl.
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Old April 19 2011, 04:03 AM   #74
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, that is a very unflattering picture of Elastigirl.
Sorry...it was the only one I could find quickly that showed her face clearly.
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Old April 27 2011, 05:48 PM   #75
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Re: CGI goddess RAPUNZEL from TANGLED appreciation thread.

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, that is a very unflattering picture of Elastigirl.
Sorry...it was the only one I could find quickly that showed her face clearly.
Well, now that you've had some time did you find another one that might better illustrate your belief?
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