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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old April 8 2011, 02:01 AM   #1
TroiFan4ever
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Masks... why all the hate?

This episode was nominated for one of the worst TNG episodes and even made the list of TNG's top 10 worst episodes. Michael Dorn even said himself that he didn't like this episode when he was at cons and other events and stuff (according to an article I read), and when I meet him at a Star Trek con, I'll respectfully ask him what he didn't like about Masks. I mean, if people don't like it, I respect peoples' personal preferences but I just can't seem to wrap my mind around all the hate and the bashing on Masks, an episode that I love so much at that.

Also, don't get me wrong. This episode COULD HAVE improved in SOME areas, but of all the TNG episodes I have seen (I didn't see all 178), this is my favourite one ever. This is the best one ever, and it's from my favourite season! Season 7.

* Data: "What does it feel like when a person is losing his mind?"

Data, trust me, I know you want to be human and all, but I don't think that's soemthing you want to know.

* I love the darkness of the corridors and all, when the ship's lights go out and the emergency lights replace them and all that good stuff.

* I find it really interesting that Data/Ihat thought that Troi was Masaka when she came into Engineering, no mask, no breastplate, no nothing. And the natives of the D-Arsay civilization know Masaka as a sun goddess as a sun symbol. Does this look at all like Troi to you? Maybe she does to Data/Ihat, but definately not to me!

* When Data/Old Man drew the symbol on Picard's palm... or on the sand, why does Masaka not like that? She killed him for that.

* How did the snakes get in the photon torpedo thing in Engineering? Why did Masaka send those snakes there? DID she send those snakes there?

* Love Troi's face when staring in disbelief at the stone slabs in Ten Forward. She's like "oh, f*ck! Why can't this be a borg invasion or something instead of this f*cking Masaka bullsh*t?"

Troi: "What exactly are we being turned into?"
Geordi: "I don't think that's something I wanna find out."

Masaka's hellhole, Geordi and Troi. That's what.

Picard: "Well, whatever the intent that lies behind its process, I'm not gonna permit my ship to be turned into an alien city!"

Um, sorry to break this to you, Picard, but it IS being turned into an alien city.

* You just gotta love how easily Data/Masaka was able to take out those security guards using not even five hits altogether, or shoot, not even three! She's like "Wow! And these punks are supposed to be security guards? Please!"

MAN! She f*cked them security guards up!

* Why is it when Picard tries to talk to Data/Masaka, she tells him to pretty much get out of her temple and ignores him. But when Picard puts on the Korgano mask, she thinks Picard is Korgano despite that he's the same man she saw before, in full red uniform and all.

BTW - I love the look on Data/Masaka's face like "the three of you better get the f*ck outta my temple before all three of you wind up on my sacraficial slab!"

Picard/"Korgano" looks like Batman with that mask on, or a character from Batman, at least.

* So... Picard/"Korgano" puts Data/Masaka to sleep by talking about how much she would like to begin a new hunt. It's something she's interested in doing, Data/Masaka said so herself, and it's boring her to sleep. Wow.

* Data/Ihat: "Stop asking me all these questions! I was fast enough to get away from her once, I don't want her to find me again or I'll end up on her sacrificial slab!"

Funniest. Line. In Star Trek. EVER! I laughed my ARSE off when Data/Ihat said the "sacrificial slab" piece and how he/she said it! LOVE IT!

In fact, Data/Ihat's whole personality in general is funny!

* No offence to her, but was Marina Sirtis pregnant when Season 7 was being worked on?
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=FTPWOQD5
At 32:15 you can see her lower stomach sticking out like a sore thumb. And I noticed the same thing in Eye of the Beholder, when Troi is in her quarters talking to Worf about her Nacelle Lab experience and right before she takes her seat.

* In the advertisement/trailer/promo/(whatever you wanna call it) for this episode, I like the creepy BGM they play when they show Data/Masaka hitting the security guards. What I really like is when the doors to Data's quarters spread open and she's right there, standing right there.

In the part of the promo when Data say "death?". They should've used the part when Data/Ihat say that word. It would evoke more... fear, if you will. Just a thought.

* Just a comment but the girl security guard standing by Data's door had nice hair.
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Old April 8 2011, 02:05 AM   #2
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

Insanity??? I didn't know it made any "worst" lists in general fandom although I knew it was disliked by many here. When it came out the reaction I saw was pretty positive. I think its one of the greats of ST. If I were to gather up 20-30 episodes from all of Star Trek to show people what ST is, Masks would be in that bunch.

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Old April 8 2011, 03:13 AM   #3
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

I'd rather watch shades of gray.
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Old April 8 2011, 03:25 AM   #4
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

Masks is just an episode that is weird just to be weird. It's a mess. It has some nice production values but I was disappointed that I sat through all of that just for the lacking big revelation that it was nothing more than an alien myth.

This was one of many episodes in S7 that I believed could be a good one with some polishing--it has a kernel of a good idea much like other weak S7 episodes Eye of the Beholder, Force of Nature, Sub Rosa, Emergence--but I thought it wasn't capitalized on in an interesting enough manner. I truly believe that had there not been so much going on in the world of Trek with all the divided attention and with a few more passes it could have been so much better--instead it was just more one indication TNG writers were burnt out and the show--as much as I loved it--was running on fumes.

I'd give it only 2 stars out of 4. When Menosky was bad he was awful.
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Old April 8 2011, 03:49 AM   #5
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Masks is just an episode that is weird just to be weird. It's a mess. It has some nice production values but I was disappointed that I sat through all of that just for the lacking big revelation that it was nothing more than an alien myth.

This was one of many episodes in S7 that I believed could be a good one with some polishing--it has a kernel of a good idea much like other weak S7 episodes Eye of the Beholder, Force of Nature, Sub Rosa, Emergence--but I thought it wasn't capitalized on in an interesting enough manner. I truly believe that had there not been so much going on in the world of Trek with all the divided attention and with a few more passes it could have been so much better--instead it was just more one indication TNG writers were burnt out and the show--as much as I loved it--was running on fumes.

I'd give it only 2 stars out of 4. When Menosky was bad he was awful.
I agree on not a single point here...the living archaeaology, the myth was exactly what was most interesting!! It has a personal link with two of the main characters that works really well. The acting was brilliant in support of it. Its not even remotely weird, it all follows a pretty simple logic, and even the transformation of objects and computer systems has a perfectly reasonable explanation (if you are inclined to believe in energy to matter conversion and back again, its not really that hard). There were far weirder concepts used in ST that's for certain.

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Old April 8 2011, 03:59 AM   #6
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

TroiFan4ever wrote: View Post
This episode was nominated for one of the worst TNG episodes and even made the list of TNG's top 10 worst episodes. Michael Dorn even said himself that he didn't like this episode when he was at cons and other events and stuff (according to an article I read), and when I meet him at a Star Trek con, I'll respectfully ask him what he didn't like about Masks.
So what did he say?

BTW, I never cared for the episode Masks. Of course it has been so long since I have seen the episode that I don't even remember what happened.
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Old April 8 2011, 03:59 AM   #7
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

I don't get the hate either. I really like this episode! It starts out being about taking back the ship from some evil alien entity and it turns out the alien ship thingie was forcing the crew to act out one of its cultural myths, namely a sun god vs. moon god myth about the daily cycle. That's what I liked about it; it was a good anthropology episode, just like Darmok, another "worst" episode.
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Old April 8 2011, 04:01 AM   #8
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

One of my favorites of TNG as well. The atmosphere of this episode is outstanding. The acting, particularly Spiner's, is very well done. And, I liked that it all boiled down to an alien myth.

It had a very Indiana Jones/1940s action-adventure feel to it.

Never got the hate.
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Old April 8 2011, 04:19 AM   #9
RAMA
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

All this Masks talk has me eager to see it again.





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Old April 8 2011, 04:19 AM   #10
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

RAMA wrote: View Post
Its not even remotely weird,
We must have been watching a different episode because the whole episode was weird--the ship transforming, snakes in the torpedoes, Data with multiple personality disorders, bizarre tales etc.
and even the transformation of objects and computer systems has a perfectly reasonable explanation (if you are inclined to believe in energy to matter conversion and back again, its not really that hard)
This didn't bother me--the whole build up into such an anticlimatic ending really hurt the episode. This was a very unfocused episode.
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Old April 8 2011, 04:29 AM   #11
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
Its not even remotely weird,
We must have been watching a different episode because the whole episode was weird--the ship transforming, snakes in the torpedoes, Data with multiple personality disorders, bizarre tales etc.
Well this has a lot to do with the probe using its technology to manipulate matter...that's why I brought it up. The changes in Data are no more unusual than a computer virus, albeit a powerful one. The "bizarre tales" are a wonderful parallel to ancient cultures on Earth. I find it fantastic to believe this advanced culture had taken its history with it, but what a unique history, they somehow were able to mimic or actually store the personalities of mythical or partially real(?) characters in an advanced form of holodeck and use the power of the probe to manifest them. Great concept.

and even the transformation of objects and computer systems has a perfectly reasonable explanation (if you are inclined to believe in energy to matter conversion and back again, its not really that hard) This didn't bother me--the whole build up into such an anticlimatic ending really hurt the episode. This was a very unfocused episode.
Okayy...but for most of the episode, the logical conclusion HAD to be that Masaka needed to be confronted for the story to play itself out and the ship to be saved...what did you expect..a fleet of Klingons? This criticism makes no sense.

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Old April 8 2011, 04:39 AM   #12
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

I don't know how it should have played out--I'm not a writer who got paid large sums of cash to be inventive and imaginative. I'm just a lowly viewer who when I first watched it found it all ended in such a limp manner.

Personally I see "Masks" as an episode people love to praise as being deep and sophisticated but really isn't. I've never really seen anyone wax on with paragraphs of how it was so brilliant in its analysis of cultural myths--frankly I'll call "Masks" a poser--a show that wants you to buy into its supposed high-mindedness but doesn't bring the goods when all is said and done.
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Old April 8 2011, 04:43 AM   #13
TroiFan4ever
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

6079SmithW wrote: View Post
I don't get the hate either. I really like this episode.
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Ro_Laren wrote: View Post
So what did he say?
Never said. I got the information from the imdb website about this episode.

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Masks is just an episode that is weird just to be weird. It's a mess. It has some nice production values but I was disappointed that I sat through all of that just for the lacking big revelation that it was nothing more than an alien myth.
You know what? I would have to say the same thing about All Good Things... except for the alien myth part, however.

This was one of many episodes in S7 that I believed could be a good one with some polishing
Aren't most, if not some, of the episodes like that, though? I thought this episode would be the bomb, and I forgot to comment on it, if Troi was the one possessed by all those D'Arsay personalities instead.

--it has a kernel of a good idea much like other weak S7 episodes Eye of the Beholder, Force of Nature, Sub Rosa, Emergence--but I thought it wasn't capitalized on in an interesting enough manner. I truly believe that had there not been so much going on in the world of Trek with all the divided attention and with a few more passes it could have been so much better--instead it was just more one indication TNG writers were burnt out and the show--as much as I loved it--was running on fumes.
I would add Genesis to that list.

Admiral Shran wrote: View Post
It had a very Indiana Jones/1940s action-adventure feel to it.
Really? I liked the BGM they played when in Data's quarters. It really put the Egyptian feel into the episode.
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Old April 8 2011, 04:46 AM   #14
Admiral Shran
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

I mean it created the same kind of atmosphere that the Indiana Jones films did - darkly lit passageways and chambers, snakes, ancient mythological symbols, atmospheric music, stuff like that.
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Old April 8 2011, 05:05 AM   #15
RAMA
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Re: Masks... why all the hate?

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
I don't know how it should have played out--I'm not a writer who got paid large sums of cash to be inventive and imaginative. I'm just a lowly viewer who when I first watched it found it all ended in such a limp manner.

Personally I see "Masks" as an episode people love to praise as being deep and sophisticated but really isn't. I've never really seen anyone wax on with paragraphs of how it was so brilliant in its analysis of cultural myths--frankly I'll call "Masks" a poser--a show that wants you to buy into its supposed high-mindedness but doesn't bring the goods when all is said and done.
See I don't think it IS high-minded..it really is pretty simple, there are no messages except the interest or admiration in understanding history and cultures which it accomplishes by just by being interesting and bringing myths to life.

I don't really know what you want then...it ends in a big hall with a confrontation that was basically pre-ordained. Its one of my favorite sets from STNG's 7 years.

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