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Old February 10 2011, 12:36 PM   #31
Deckerd
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

My mistake, it is just below, where there should be very little gravity at all. Suspension of disbelief time.
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Old February 10 2011, 01:42 PM   #32
Asbo Zaprudder
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

Deckerd wrote: View Post
My mistake, it is just below, where there should be very little gravity at all. Suspension of disbelief time.
I don't recall them getting this wrong in the show. I remember the floor of CnC being farther from the axis of rotation than the ceiling, which is correct. I estimated the distance from the axis as as about 1/6th of the radius to the 1G zone. They did try hard to make the physics more plausible than in a lot of sci-fi shows. They worked out the correct dynamics for ejecting the Star Furies. Those fighters used control thrusters rather than aerodynamic surfaces for manoeuvring, and the capital ships definitely steered around like they massed many tens of thousands of tons.
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Old February 10 2011, 08:30 PM   #33
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

One thing that could be taken into account and doesn't necessarily require dialogue to explain it - they had help from other races.

The Centauri gave them jump gate technology. They could've also given some gravity plating to help even out the g-forces in various points of the station that needed it.

(Ignoring JMS's comments of course)
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Old February 10 2011, 08:53 PM   #34
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

^That's simply could not be the case. It's stated pretty flat out in 'Rising Star' that until that point, both the Minbari and Centauri made a point of keeping certain technologies-including artificial gravity-to themselves. Aside from that, from what little we know of how it actually works it's not "grav plating" like on Star Trek so much as a by product of the kind of "gravitic engines" their ships use.

As I said, it's simply a necessary dramatic conceit made in the interest of sheer practicality. They couldn't show people walking around in low gravity all the time any more than they could have too many aliens that don't just happen to look like humans wearing latex masks. At least they took the time to figure out how things *should* work even if it wasn't possible to portray it as such.
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Old February 11 2011, 02:11 AM   #35
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

Although he’s talking a little bit of bollards with regard to never giving any thought to how things worked (remembering he was essentially animating stuff, not designing it or working stuff out – look at the Steve Burg interview on the same site for example) your man Mojo kind of hints at some of the thinking around the gravity thing. The bottom line is a lot of this stuff was being made up as they went along.

http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scro...m#Screen1_09_4

There was absolutely no thought whatsoever into how the ships worked, how many people were on board, where the gas went or what sort of toilet paper was on board. We did establish a universe that used real physics but almost never followed through - in theory EVERY ship should have some sort of rotating habitat, but I think the general idea was that Earth ships had them, but some alien ships could have "magic artificial gravity" that Earth hadn't yet developed - that's why I think we only saw rotating stuff on Earth ships. Although if memory serves, in the shot of Londo watching the bombardment of Narn, you see him holding a railing - that is SPECIFICALLY to address the idea that there is no gravity on board the ship.

But of course while that was a nice detail for that shot, I doubt it was ever followed through by addressing the lack of gravity every time we went on board a Centauri ship. So that is a good example of a small detail being addressed, but it was never openly discussed or decided WHO had magic gravity, if they did, did ALL their ships have it, etc. If anything, rotating ships were not followed up with every race because it limits design choices and opens up a big can of worms - once you SHOW a ship with a rotating section, you are screaming to the audience "we're using real physics, there is no magic gravity on this ship" and then you ARE obligated to pay attention to details.
Whatever rule book was being followed though, was most certainly thrown out the window by the time you get to Crusade (though FI had long gone by that point) – remember Gidean looking out the (chest high) window on the rotating section of the deep space explorer he was originally captaining. Going for the non-magic gravity option in the B5 verse was a gutsy move but couldn’t possibly be depicted 100% accurately with the tech and budgets.
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Old February 11 2011, 04:25 AM   #36
Brolan
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Still doesn't address the problem of them standing on the wrong surface. You see pan backs from them standing on the bridge, looking out at incoming traffic or whatever, and they're standing on what should be the ceiling in centripetal artifical gravity.

They also missed this the two times the station was attacked by boarding pods. The invaders should have been shown coming up from the floor, as the "gravity" should be pushing everyone down to the outside wall. Instead they board through a hole in the wall. Makes it easy to set up and film, but makes no sense otherwise.
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Old February 11 2011, 04:40 AM   #37
Jan
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

I don't remember what the other time was but this was the explanation JMS gave when asked about the scene in Severed Dreams:

Basically, the Marines burned through the outer hull, moved into the inner
hull (like any good vessel, this one is double hulled), then came up at a
right angle, looking for a good wall to come through. You *don't* want to
come up through the floor, because then you have to climb out one or two at a
time, which makes you a sitting duck. Better to move off a few feet, and
come up via a section between walls and blow your way through so you can come
out en masse.

jms
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Old February 11 2011, 04:42 AM   #38
David cgc
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

Well, that's easy enough to explain by saying we didn't see the boarders at the initial breach. We definitely didn't in "A View from the Gallery."
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Old February 11 2011, 04:45 AM   #39
Reverend
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

Triple-F wrote: View Post
Although he’s talking a little bit of bollards with regard to never giving any thought to how things worked (remembering he was essentially animating stuff, not designing it or working stuff out – look at the Steve Burg interview on the same site for example) your man Mojo kind of hints at some of the thinking around the gravity thing. The bottom line is a lot of this stuff was being made up as they went along.

http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scro...m#Screen1_09_4

There was absolutely no thought whatsoever into how the ships worked, how many people were on board, where the gas went or what sort of toilet paper was on board. We did establish a universe that used real physics but almost never followed through - in theory EVERY ship should have some sort of rotating habitat, but I think the general idea was that Earth ships had them, but some alien ships could have "magic artificial gravity" that Earth hadn't yet developed - that's why I think we only saw rotating stuff on Earth ships. Although if memory serves, in the shot of Londo watching the bombardment of Narn, you see him holding a railing - that is SPECIFICALLY to address the idea that there is no gravity on board the ship.

But of course while that was a nice detail for that shot, I doubt it was ever followed through by addressing the lack of gravity every time we went on board a Centauri ship. So that is a good example of a small detail being addressed, but it was never openly discussed or decided WHO had magic gravity, if they did, did ALL their ships have it, etc. If anything, rotating ships were not followed up with every race because it limits design choices and opens up a big can of worms - once you SHOW a ship with a rotating section, you are screaming to the audience "we're using real physics, there is no magic gravity on this ship" and then you ARE obligated to pay attention to details.
Whatever rule book was being followed though, was most certainly thrown out the window by the time you get to Crusade (though FI had long gone by that point) – remember Gidean looking out the (chest high) window on the rotating section of the deep space explorer he was originally captaining. Going for the non-magic gravity option in the B5 verse was a gutsy move but couldn’t possibly be depicted 100% accurately with the tech and budgets.

Yeah, that shot in Warzone is probably the only really blatant mistake, but given the kind of crap that was flying at the time I think we can forgive such an oversight.

As the rest; from what I gather, if there was any serious thought about the working of things it probably went little further than Copeland. More to the point though gravity on alien ships was clearly being thought about as on the two (?) occasions we saw the bridge of Narn cruisers, everyone was strapped in just like on the Earth Hyperions and likewise on the two or three occasions we saw on board a Drazi ship (though we did also see wheel shaped Drazi space stations.)

The only real grey area is, as you say, the Centauri ships. It may have been that it wasn't until after that episode that it was decided that they had gravity too and in the later seasons it was more or less implicit that they did.

As for the other League ships, to be fair Vree ships *did* have rotating sections...of course that doesn't mean they'd have to be for gravity but it's as good an explanation as any. As for the others, while it's true there are no other ships with obvious rotating hulls, there's always the possibility of smaller internal smaller scale centrifuges like the Discovery's from 2001. Indeed, even the Hyperion might be big enough to have one.

Another thing to consider is that as Delenn points out in 'Rising Star', a warship with a rotating section is going to be slower and less manoeuvrable, which is a pretty good justification for only a handful of ship types using them; *big* passenger liners, large deep range destroyers and those *huge* explorers. Smaller ships with a shorter range/mission durations could probably get away with zero-G so long as the crews are rotated to prevent bone loss and muscle atrophy or as previous mentioned, a smaller centrifuge allows them to exercise in something approaching normal gravity.

Actually, now that I think about it I think there was a specific mention of Sakai's Skydancer being equipped with special zero-g exercise equipment so she can keep in shape during her months long survey missions.
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Old February 11 2011, 05:06 AM   #40
David cgc
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

^Maybe the fact that Earth was willing to go to the trouble to build ships and stations that rotated contributed to their rapid expansion compared to the League worlds, some of which had a thousand-year head start. Everyone else had to keep rotating crews back home so their bones wouldn't dissolve like Vikings refusing to sail out of sight of land, but Earth's slow, giant whirly-doodle ships meant they could travel out much father without turning back.
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Old February 11 2011, 05:10 AM   #41
Sephiroth
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

magnetic shoes are the norm in the future
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Old February 11 2011, 06:34 AM   #42
T.Geiger
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Re: B5 downbelow question.

There is also the thought that several new technologies will become available once we figure out the Theory of Everything, which combines gravity with the other physical forces. It has been speculated that this will allow everything from artificial gravity to warp drive.
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