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Old February 8 2011, 03:33 PM   #76
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

SD70ACe wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Daniels was referred to as a Temporal Agent working for the Federation. Whatever his agency's ancestry, it evidently doesn't have the same name as the DTI -- and has a much more activist approach to time.
Eesh. So we've possibly got three different groups handling time crimes by the 31st century! (DTI, Starfleet timeships, Daniels' group) I wonder if they ever cross paths, or screw up each others' work?
I think Daniels might have been part of Starfleet's Temporal Intelligence division, unless Starfleet has become Timefleet by that time, who knows. DTI may not even exist in that time period if Starfleet is policing the timeline.
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Old February 8 2011, 04:06 PM   #77
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

JD wrote: View Post
I can't remember, did you or didn't you say that there is no time travel by the DTI? I've read some other stuff that seemed to assume that they did, but I think I remember you saying somewhere that they don't actually do any time traveling themselves.
Well, the DTI's goal is to keep the timeline as pure and unaltered as possible, and actually travelling through time themselves would increase, rather than reduce, the risk of alterations. So it's not something they would do as a rule. And not necessarily something they could do reliably with the resources available in the 24th century. It's not as easy as it's sometimes been made to look, or else it'd already be routine.


Sxottlan wrote: View Post
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I'm not a big fan of the TCW (unless the nature of it is explained in this novel, I'm still not even sure what the hell it was supposed to be about).
I always interpreted it as a conflict between two powers far in the future, both subtly trying to manipulate different points in history to shape their present so that they come out on top without a shot fired between them in real time.
We were introduced to at least four TCW factions in the course of ENT. There was Future Guy from the 28th century, the Federation Temporal Agents from the 31st century, the Sphere Builders from an extradimensional realm, and the Na'kuhl from the 29th century (aka the Space Nazis). And "Future Tense" implied that the Tholians were involved in the TCW as well -- perhaps simply as local proxies like the Suliban Cabal, the Xindi, and Archer, but perhaps as something more. And we've seen other time-travelling groups in other series that could potentially have been involved. For instance, in Howard Weinstein's TOS comics for DC, he established that Gary Seven's employers, whom he named the Aegis, were fighting to protect the timeline from disruption by other, more hostile factions. This was written ten years before ENT premiered, but it sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it? (Though it may have been inspired by the original pilot version of "Assignment: Earth," in which Gary would've been a time traveller battling shapeshifting Omegans who wanted to alter Earth history.)



Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Oh, I got that - they just never seemed to have any driving purpose or REASON behind what they were doing. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of motivation. They just seemed to be shotgun blasting the past for some nebulous future reason.
Honestly, there never was a real purpose. The producers didn't even want to include time travel; UPN insisted because they were nervous about doing a straight-up prequel and wanted something that moved forward from the 24th century. So the time-travel elements didn't really arise from the producers' own plans or goals for the series, and thus it was kind of tacked on.

But that's the challenge, both for me as a writer and for the characters as investigators: figuring out what could tie all these seemingly random, unconnected temporal events together.



SD70ACe wrote: View Post
Eesh. So we've possibly got three different groups handling time crimes by the 31st century! (DTI, Starfleet timeships, Daniels' group) I wonder if they ever cross paths, or screw up each others' work?
At least three groups, yes, but not necessarily contemporaneous. Still, with time travel, that doesn't mean they couldn't cross paths.

And the 29th-century timeships were working for the Temporal Integrity Commission. We know that much.


BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
I think Daniels might have been part of Starfleet's Temporal Intelligence division, unless Starfleet has become Timefleet by that time, who knows. DTI may not even exist in that time period if Starfleet is policing the timeline.
We don't have any clear indication that Daniels was in Starfleet, except in his cover identity.
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Old February 8 2011, 04:21 PM   #78
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Is it possible that the DTI became the Temporal Integrity Commission, and like the DTI perhaps using Starfleet for assistance, the TIC did as well with the Starfleet of their time?
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Old February 8 2011, 04:33 PM   #79
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Possible? Sure. Likely? Who knows?
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Old February 8 2011, 04:52 PM   #80
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the DTI's goal is to keep the timeline as pure and unaltered as possible, and actually travelling through time themselves would increase, rather than reduce, the risk of alterations. So it's not something they would do as a rule. And not necessarily something they could do reliably with the resources available in the 24th century. It's not as easy as it's sometimes been made to look, or else it'd already be routine.
It was pretty easy in the 23rd century, when Kirk went back in time for a Starfleet-ordered historical mission. Perhaps not routine, but it couldn't have been much of a problem. Kirk certainly abused the ease of time travel, anyway...he had, what, seventeen temporal violations?
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Old February 8 2011, 05:26 PM   #81
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
How does a war even break out between centuries?
Possibly the same way the war broke out between Skynet (post-Judgement Day) and Sarah Connor's resistance (pre-Judgement Day) (as opposed to John Connor's post-JD resistance).
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Old February 8 2011, 05:32 PM   #82
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Sarah Connor had a resistance? Was that in the TV show?
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Old February 8 2011, 05:56 PM   #83
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

SD70ACe wrote: View Post
It was pretty easy in the 23rd century, when Kirk went back in time for a Starfleet-ordered historical mission. Perhaps not routine, but it couldn't have been much of a problem.
Except that if it were always that easy, why isn't it still being done a century later? Why was Picard never sent back in time on a historical scouting mission? And if it were that easy, why aren't the Romulans or the Cardassians or the Dominion sending back timeships to wipe out the Federation every week? Despite what we were shown in TOS, the preponderance of evidence in the TNG era is that time travel is still only a rare, generally accidental occurrence. So maybe there was something unusual going on with Kirk's Enterprise...


Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Sarah Connor had a resistance? Was that in the TV show?
Sarah Connor was the resistance.
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Old February 8 2011, 06:14 PM   #84
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Christopher wrote: View Post
So maybe there was something unusual going on with Kirk's Enterprise...
Maybe, but the fact remains that Starfleet sent him on that mission, and they had absolutely no trouble traveling back and forth in time. As to why it wasn't used later...well, blame that on the writers.
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Old February 8 2011, 06:40 PM   #85
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

SD70ACe wrote: View Post
Maybe, but the fact remains that Starfleet sent him on that mission, and they had absolutely no trouble traveling back and forth in time.
Did they really have no trouble? We didn't actually see them travelling back and forth in time in "Assignment: Earth," so we have no basis for drawing any conclusions about the ease or difficulty of the undertaking in that instance.
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Old February 8 2011, 06:43 PM   #86
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

I do realize Sarah was a resistance in and of herself - just the way it was worded threw me (and I didn't watch the show)
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Old February 8 2011, 06:53 PM   #87
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Christopher, maybe you could answer this for me:

We know Nero's from the prime reality, and his temporal incursion created the alternate one, correct? But wouldn't he have landed in the 2233 of the prime reality, and split the alternate off from there?
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Old February 8 2011, 07:31 PM   #88
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

SD70ACe wrote: View Post
We know Nero's from the prime reality, and his temporal incursion created the alternate one, correct? But wouldn't he have landed in the 2233 of the prime reality, and split the alternate off from there?
Sure, why not? That's pretty much exactly what happened. But the very fact of the time warp's incursion was itself sufficient to trigger that schism, so it's a moot distinction. There was never a moment when Nero and the Narada were not in an alternate 2233, because the alternate branch began the moment the time warp opened, just before the ship came through.
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Old February 8 2011, 08:13 PM   #89
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

I read a post on another forum recently where a poster postulated that there was no altered or "Prime" reality because Ambassador Spock clearly recognized himself and the other younger versions of his friends and assumed they were the same versions from our timeline. I always wondered why the writers didn't take a couple of extra minutes to explain why the younger selves were different in appearance. Spock acknowledges Scotty first and even is able to input his equation for transwarp beaming. Interesting observation.
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Old February 8 2011, 08:26 PM   #90
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Re: Official Description and Cover up for DTI: Watching the Clock

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I read a post on another forum recently where a poster postulated that there was no altered or "Prime" reality because Ambassador Spock clearly recognized himself and the other younger versions of his friends and assumed they were the same versions from our timeline.
I don't follow that logic. Why would they look different just because the timeline diverged?


I always wondered why the writers didn't take a couple of extra minutes to explain why the younger selves were different in appearance.
Same reason they didn't explain why Saavik, Zefram Cochrane, DaiMon Bok, Tora Ziyal, T'Pau, or any other recast character was different in appearance -- because, in-universe, they weren't different in appearance. They were the same characters, simply played by different actors. It's fiction, after all. Sometimes that means accepting that what we see onscreen is only an approximation of an imaginary reality. If we recognize that the Romulan cloaking device is a mix of Nomad's head and Sargon's globe, that doesn't mean the Romulans actually built it from those pieces; it means the prop department built it from those pieces and we're supposed to accept the fictional conceit that they're actually unrelated pieces of technology. In a case where a character is recast and yet still recognized as the same character, we're expected to accept the fictional conceit that there's been no change in their appearance.
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