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Fan Fiction Other forums talk about Trek. We make it.

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Old March 22 2012, 10:08 PM   #1
Kirok_of_LStok
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Mea Culpa. Please explain

I wonder if I could ask your indulgence, ladies and gentlemen by explaining to me, a new member here, which rules I have transgressed against that caused you close the thread I started on fan publishing? You'll excuse me if my gauche antipodean simplicity has offended in some way. Perhaps if I study your pontifications I will discern the error of my ways and be able to ascend to your own plane of existence?

Sandoval thinks that my ideas were, "a self-indulgent, overblown pile of tripe." Such a pretty turn of phrase, did it take you long to type? Being a new member I have no way of knowing what level to pitch my writing to. I pitched it high, assuming that the TrekBBS fan fiction forum would be packed to the gunwales with intelligent, scholarly writers. Was I wrong? I'm sorry. So its overblown? Hmmm I'll have to dumb it down a bit. Tripe? Oh dear, [tries to hold back the tears] what makes you say that? You disagree? How so? But wait! My thoughts haven't been lobotomised enough yet for you to deign to reply? Sorry.

Count Zero implies agreement and adds, "Spammy, too, and copied from somewhere else, apparently. So I'm closing this." Oh, but you are mistaken Countess, that was 100% House of L'Stok and I'll thank you to show where I'm supposed to have plagiarised it from. That is a VERY serious accusation you are making there and I will defend my honour to the death. I humbly request you explain this outrageous slur on my work.

I'd be interested to know how you call it spam as well, what am I supposed to be selling?

Thank you for your attention, oh pearls of wisdom! I await your explanation of my transgression with baited breath.

Kirok of L'Stok
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Old March 22 2012, 10:14 PM   #2
Sandoval
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

I can't help but be reminded of the Friends episode where Joey Tribbiani discovered the thesaurus on his laptop...
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Old March 22 2012, 10:35 PM   #3
Count Zero
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Spam doesn't necessarily mean that you have something to sell. But you pretty much posted a lengthy monologue in multiple posts without interacting with other posters, e.g. jespah who chimed in. This made it sound decidedly like it was taken from somewhere else where it was posted in its entirety like a blog. It might be your own writing, I never said anything about plagiarism.
However, I didn't see any invitation for any form of discussion. It was more like a declaration. The way this thread is written doesn't convince me of your innocuousness, either. It is kind of amusing, though. I realise that your ability to discuss moderator decisions is limited because you can't write/receive PMs, yet (contacting the moderator via PM is the right course of action in this case) but opening a new thread to complain about something is generally frowned upon.
If you want to particpate here, fine. Read around to get a feel for the place. But the tone of this thread makes me doubt that that's what you're here for. I'll keep an open mind, though.
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Old March 22 2012, 11:18 PM   #4
Kirok_of_LStok
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Sandoval wrote: View Post
I can't help but be reminded of the Friends episode where Joey Tribbiani discovered the thesaurus on his laptop...
Thesaurus? Haven't seen one of those since the late Miocene.

No, I haven't been the same since I got adicted to the Readers Digest "Improve your vocabulary" quizes. I believe verbose is the term you're looking for.

K
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Old March 22 2012, 11:46 PM   #5
Kirok_of_LStok
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Spam doesn't necessarily mean that you have something to sell.
Really? I've never heard that. Could you give me an example in context?
Count Zero wrote: View Post
But you pretty much posted a lengthy monologue in multiple posts without interacting with other posters, e.g. jespah who chimed in. This made it sound decidedly like it was taken from somewhere else where it was posted in its entirety like a blog.
No, it was based on other fragments but it was edited as an original work just for this forum.
Count Zero wrote: View Post
It might be your own writing, I never said anything about plagiarism.
Good. So we are agreed I haven't copied it - what other reason was there for closing the thread?
Count Zero wrote: View Post
However, I didn't see any invitation for any form of discussion. It was more like a declaration.
I wrote it in the form of a debate. That was the opening shot. Others are supposed to respond. Don't they do that here?
Count Zero wrote: View Post
The way this thread is written doesn't convince me of your innocuousness, either. It is kind of amusing, though.
Moi, innocuous? LMFAO! I've never been accused of that before! I'm glad you found it amusing, I try to be witty in my responses but I usually only get half way there.
Count Zero wrote: View Post
I realise that your ability to discuss moderator decisions is limited because you can't write/receive PMs, yet (contacting the moderator via PM is the right course of action in this case) but opening a new thread to complain about something is generally frowned upon.
Complain? [hurt] I'm only asking for clarification.
Count Zero wrote: View Post
If you want to particpate here, fine. Read around to get a feel for the place. But the tone of this thread makes me doubt that that's what you're here for. I'll keep an open mind, though.
What I'm here for is to discuss fan publishing. Period. Full stop. The purpose of this thread is to get guidance from the forum as to why this is not possible. I thought to see if there was any edification in the forum rules...
The owners of The Trek BBS reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
Shortest rule set I've ever seen! Stunning in its, ah, simplicity but it doesn't give me guidance on how to remedy this situation so I used the only course of communication open to me. I'm a guest in your house and asking the way, can you help me?

I know many of the posters on this forum and believe that they are intelligent people who I would like to get input from. We can't do that with a closed thread, can we?

K
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Old March 22 2012, 11:58 PM   #6
Count Zero
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Here is the segment on spamming from the board FAQ (which you're supposed to read before posting).

And a lengthy monologue split over three posts in which questions are only raised to be answered immediately and without any consideration for remarks by other posters isn't what I would call an opening shot designed to start a discussion. That's why the thread came off as spammy.
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Old March 23 2012, 01:06 AM   #7
Kirok_of_LStok
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Here is the segment on spamming from the board FAQ (which you're supposed to read before posting).
I followed the link at the bottom of the FanFic forum contents page labelled "Forum rules" which gave me the quote above. Reading the section you have above I can only see one thing that could possibly apply to what I posted, "Do not post more than twice in a row in the same thread."

Count Zero wrote: View Post
And a lengthy monologue split over three posts in which questions are only raised to be answered immediately and without any consideration for remarks by other posters isn't what I would call an opening shot designed to start a discussion. That's why the thread came off as spammy.
OK, I've got it:
  • Keep it short
  • Keep it simple
  • Don't use big words
  • Wait until someone answers before going on to the next point
Thank you for your assistance. I would never have thought to pitch it at so, well, simplistic a level but I love a challenge!

I look forward to the input of the forum.

K
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Old March 23 2012, 03:21 AM   #8
nightwind1
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Kirok_of_LStok wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post
Here is the segment on spamming from the board FAQ (which you're supposed to read before posting).
I followed the link at the bottom of the FanFic forum contents page labelled "Forum rules" which gave me the quote above. Reading the section you have above I can only see one thing that could possibly apply to what I posted, "Do not post more than twice in a row in the same thread."

Count Zero wrote: View Post
And a lengthy monologue split over three posts in which questions are only raised to be answered immediately and without any consideration for remarks by other posters isn't what I would call an opening shot designed to start a discussion. That's why the thread came off as spammy.
OK, I've got it:
  • Keep it short
  • Keep it simple
  • Don't use big words
  • Wait until someone answers before going on to the next point
Thank you for your assistance. I would never have thought to pitch it at so, well, simplistic a level but I love a challenge!

I look forward to the input of the forum.

K
You'll get better interaction if you don't act like such a wiseass.
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Old March 23 2012, 05:10 AM   #9
Kirok_of_LStok
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

nightwind1 wrote: View Post
You'll get better interaction if you don't act like such a wiseass.
Mea culpa. I generally find trivial banter to be the best response to course insults. Generally they are used to make the recipient do or say something that will enflame the situation.

I think I've gathered enough information to gauge the tenor of this forum and not make the same mistakes again. My sincere thanks to all.

Kirok of L'Stok
The Fan Production Curmudgeon ©
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Old March 23 2012, 05:19 AM   #10
Gibraltar
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Kirok, I know you from other forums to be an intelligent, thoughtful person and a great proponent of fanfiction, most especially Trek fanfic.

However, I think you’ve got off on the wrong foot in this particular forum, and though some of the member’s reactions may have been on the extreme end of the spectrum, you honestly could have handled it better.

I firmly believe you could bring a great deal of value to this fanfic community in a number of ways. I would, however, sincerely request that you reconsider the off-putting tone you’ve established thus far here.
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Old March 23 2012, 05:53 AM   #11
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

I agree with most of what Gibraltar said. And I want to make it very clear to anyone who may be questioning it, that Kirok does indeed make good, legitimate contributions to other forums. I know him and I can vouch for that just as Gibraltar can.

Unfortunately, I must add the fact that this forum never has really discussed the behind-the-scenes art of fanficcing, but served solely as a posting ground for fanfic itself. Which is a shame, I think, but it just doesn't seem to be found around here.
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Old March 23 2012, 06:40 AM   #12
Kirok_of_LStok
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Gibraltar wrote: View Post
Kirok, I know you from other forums to be an intelligent, thoughtful person and a great proponent of fanfiction, most especially Trek fanfic.

However, I think you’ve got off on the wrong foot in this particular forum, and though some of the member’s reactions may have been on the extreme end of the spectrum, you honestly could have handled it better.

I firmly believe you could bring a great deal of value to this fanfic community in a number of ways. I would, however, sincerely request that you reconsider the off-putting tone you’ve established thus far here.
Hi Gibraltar, you're right, I should know better at my age. I haven't risen to the bait like that since the great Wikiwar of '05 but I react badly to negativity - no, I'm not talking about you, Countess, you were right not to trust my innocuosityness.

I'm not here to play personality games, I'm here to share in the knowledge and experience of others, to offer my own small experience if anyone is interested. I was sincere in my thanks - I've never heard of a two post spam rule which is the major problem I can see with my thread. I refuse to believe that people couldn't keep up with what I wrote. There are people far more intelligent and elloquent than I in Star Trek fandom and many of them are on TrekBBS.

I'm going to walk away from this thread, re-write that thread to suit the forum rules and, whilst I will draw enlightenment from this exchange, I will not allow it to colour my dealings with others. Will others do the same? "Play the ball and not the player" otherwise we will all lose.

...and that would be a shame.

Hi Nerys! Didn't see you post when I started writing this... interesting, simply being a respository for fanfic might expalin the animosity to a thread of commentary.

Cheers

K
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Old March 23 2012, 10:48 AM   #13
Count Zero
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

I don't think the animosity had its root in the topic of your thread, Kirok, but in its tone and the wall-of-texting (so to speak). Meta discussions are definetely ok and actually, I'd like to see them here.
I did gauge you very differently from your thread than what you're apparently really like, judging by the fact that other, established posters have vouched for you. In any case, after having slept on it, I would have encouraged you to start a new thread about fan publishing. Anyway, I'm looking forward to your contributions here.
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Old March 23 2012, 07:18 PM   #14
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

I want to chime in here as well.

While I agree Kirok's tone was heavy-handed and inappropriate at times, I strongly concur with his message.

As a fan of ebooks and Star Trek fanfic I really believe that it is a marriage made in heaven. Especially for a finished product.

I myself have plans to turn most of my work into ebook formats and would love to see more by other writers. More and more people nowadays have smart phones, Kindles, iPads, tablets or other e-readers and you can even read them fairly easy on a computer.

Richard Merk runs a site that offers a good selection of Trek fanfic ebooks and last time I checked he freely offered his assistance to turn stories into ebooks and publish them on his site (http://merknet.com/ebooks/)
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Old March 23 2012, 09:14 PM   #15
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Re: Mea Culpa. Please explain

Count me in with the chiming - I hope my responding to the other topic didn't tip things in one direction or another.

I know Kirok - and he is cool for an Aussie dude.

Seriously, all he wants is for fan fic writers to have their work be more accessible to more people.
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