RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,169
Posts: 5,344,883
Members: 24,601
Currently online: 609
Newest member: Capt_n_Admiral

TrekToday headlines

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Retro Review: In the Pale Moonlight
By: Michelle on Jul 19

Trek Beach Towel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 18

Two New Starships Collection Releases
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 12 2011, 03:47 PM   #1231
Too Much Fun
Commodore
 
Too Much Fun's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Yeah, I was vaguely aware of Zod appearing in some form on "Smallville", but I've never watched the show and this is one of the reasons I have no intention to. I don't know about this movie. Regardless of how original it may be, I think it would be really hard to watch someone else in a role that I identify so strongly with one actor and never wanted to see played by anyone else. The movie would have to have a lot of other great stuff going on to keep me from feeling too bummed out about that.
Too Much Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 03:52 PM   #1232
Obiwanshinobi
Rear Admiral
 
Obiwanshinobi's Avatar
 
Location: ObiWanShinobi
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

No offense, but I think you're prematurely over reacting. Wouldn't you want to wait until they finish casting and release more info on the plot, see photos, trailer etc. before you totally write it off?
Obiwanshinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 04:02 PM   #1233
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

RAMA wrote: View Post
Missing the boat by not using Brainiac
I can take Zod if they do it it well but I, too, would like to see a good take on Braniac. That said I just don't want to see Lex Luthor for awhile.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 04:10 PM   #1234
Too Much Fun
Commodore
 
Too Much Fun's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

ObiWanShinobi wrote: View Post
No offense, but I think you're prematurely over reacting. Wouldn't you want to wait until they finish casting and release more info on the plot, see photos, trailer etc. before you totally write it off?
Well I thought my post made it clear that I'm not totally writing it off. I'm open to the possibility that it can still be an enjoyable movie despite the presence of someone else in the Zod role. I may still watch it. I'm just saying no matter what it's going to bother me that someone else is playing the character, no matter how good he or the rest of the movie may be.

Last edited by Too Much Fun; April 12 2011 at 09:25 PM.
Too Much Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 04:25 PM   #1235
Captain Craig
Vice Admiral
 
Captain Craig's Avatar
 
Location: Nashville,TN
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
And I'll back up the person calling Michael Shannon a relative unknown. I'm a huge movie buff who watches tons of movies per year (to be fair, most of them are old) and I don't recall ever seeing him in anything. His IMDB page says he was in three movies I've seen: "Groundhog Day", "Vanilla Sky", and "Tigerland". He didn't leave enough of an impression (or had too small a role) for me to remember him in any of those. I do wish I'd seen "8 Mile" and "Before the Devil Knows You're Dead" and probably will in the future.

Not every person nominated for an Oscar is well-known and not everyone watches HBO. This is all moot, though, because it doesn't matter how famous or not famous an actor is, as long as they're right for the part. I've got nothing against Michael Shannon, I just don't think anyone is right for this part besides the man who already played it. As far as I'm concerned, no one else can ever put their 'stamp' on the character.
+1
I read that diss and thought the same thing. But I had limited time at that moment and didn't reply. I watch mostly a mix of movies from the last 5 or so years and check to see who wins the Academy Awards(don't watch the show but check the winners). Michael Shannon isn't someone who has jumped out at me. Heck I just saw Michael Fassbender in something last night and while he was a competent actor you'd think he was an acting genius if you've been following the X-Men:First Class thread. Maybe my following of that thread built my expectations too high for him.

I hope Shannon does a great Zod but he isn't "well known" even by people who watch plenty of movies imo. So it's possible his performance will allow people to see Zod and not *insert really well known name here* playing Zod.
__________________
"Picard never hit me." Q-Less(DS9)
"Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings" Optimus Prime
Twitter:http://twitter.com/#!/CaptainCraig1
Captain Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 04:37 PM   #1236
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
I As much as T-800 in the Terminator movies, Marty McFly, Inspector Clouseau, Indiana Jones, John McClaine, Fox Mulder, Dana Scully, Ashley J. Campbell, Snake Plissken, Rocky Balboa, Jack Sparrow, Tony Montana, Michael Corleone, The Tramp and countless other iconic characters, this is a role that I think should only ever be played by one actor and never re-cast.
Well, Indiana Jones has already been played by Harrison Ford, River Phoenix, Sean Patrick Flannery and two other actors in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, who I'm too lazy to IMDB. Inspector Clouseau has been played by Peter Sellers, Alan Arkin, Steve Martin and (kinda) Roger Moore.

The characters you name differ from Zod because they were by and large created for the screen and personified by the actors playing them. Zod was a comic character who was first played on screen by Terence Stamp. He was not created by or for Terence Stamp. I agree that Stamp's performance is highly memorable but the character doesn't belong to him any more than Superman belongs to Chris Reeve. Besides, if Mr Spock, Captain Kirk, Obi-Wan Kenobi and others can be re-cast, then so can Zod. I'm not dying on the character being used in this movie, but there's nothing wrong with reinterpreting him for a new generation of movie-goers.

And I'll back up the person calling Michael Shannon a relative unknown. I'm a huge movie buff who watches tons of movies per year (to be fair, most of them are old) and I don't recall ever seeing him in anything. His IMDB page says he was in three movies I've seen: "Groundhog Day", "Vanilla Sky", and "Tigerland". He didn't leave enough of an impression (or had too small a role) for me to remember him in any of those. I do wish I'd seen "8 Mile" and "Before the Devil Knows You're Dead" and probably will in the future.

Not every person nominated for an Oscar is well-known and not everyone watches HBO.
He didn't call him a relative unknown. He called him an unknown. Which, with an Oscar nom under his belt and having worked with Scorsese, Sam Mendes, Joel Schumacher, Curtis Hanson, Michael Bay, Oliver Stone and Sidney Lumet he's clearly not.

This is all moot, though, because it doesn't matter how famous or not famous an actor is, as long as they're right for the part. I've got nothing against Michael Shannon, I just don't think anyone is right for this part besides the man who already played it. As far as I'm concerned, no one else can ever put their 'stamp' on the character.
Well, we'll see when the movie is released. But this is clearly more on you than on Shannon.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 08:02 PM   #1237
Aragorn
Admiral
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

^ I'd say this mentality is all on Too Much Fun. Remember Adam West on The Simpons? "Michelle Pfeiffer? Ha! The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt."

Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
I still don't think this Zod choice can be justified as being a good idea because it will be a "re-interpretation". What happened to "If it a'int broke, don't fix it?".
You mean like how Christopher Reeve was the definitive Superman, so therefore there shouldn't be another one?

As I said before, I guarantee you they'll go for a more serious take on the character and IT DOESN'T NEED THAT. As much as T-800 in the Terminator movies, Marty McFly, Inspector Clouseau, Indiana Jones, John McClaine, Fox Mulder, Dana Scully, Ashley J. Campbell, Snake Plissken, Rocky Balboa, Jack Sparrow, Tony Montana, Michael Corleone, The Tramp and countless other iconic characters, this is a role that I think should only ever be played by one actor and never re-cast.
Don't forget Kirk and Spock!
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 08:37 PM   #1238
Too Much Fun
Commodore
 
Too Much Fun's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Well, Indiana Jones has already been played by Harrison Ford, River Phoenix, Sean Patrick Flannery and two other actors in The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, who I'm too lazy to IMDB. Inspector Clouseau has been played by Peter Sellers, Alan Arkin, Steve Martin and (kinda) Roger Moore.
Besides, if Mr Spock, Captain Kirk, Obi-Wan Kenobi and others can be re-cast, then so can Zod.
I figured someone would make a rebuttal like this, so I had this reply ready to go. It's not the same as someone playing the younger version of a character, or playing a movie character in a TV adaptation. This is why I don't think the other Indiana Jones actors invalidate my theory. Harrison Ford is the definitive big screen middle-aged Indiana Jones. Casting anyone else in that role would be wrong and would be rightfully derided.

The same goes for the Star Wars and Star Trek characters. Re-casting them as young characters is not the same as re-casting Alec Guiness, William Shatner, or Leonard Nimoy. Can you imagine how fans would react if there was a new Star Trek series set in the same period as the original Star Trek series, with the same characters at the same age, but played by different actors? How stupid and pointless would that be? A younger version of a character might as well be a completely different character.

The other actors playing Inspector Clouseau just prove my point. They were pale imitations of the original. Inspector Clouseau was a defining role in the career of Peter Sellers, who had a distinguished career and made the character his own. Anyone playing the role would have to be compared to him, and inevitably compared unfavorably.

You mean like how Christopher Reeve was the definitive Superman, so therefore there shouldn't be another one?
As for James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Superman, Batman, and various other superheroes, that's different. By design, those characters are always going to be re-cast and reinterpreted by different directors in different eras. They are the main characters of their own franchises, and therefore, must be re-cast in order for the franchises to be sustained. They are not simply products of their times, but can be tweaked to work in different eras.

Heroes will always change actors. I see no reason for an actor to play a villain that had appeared in a past superhero movie if the villain had been portrayed to its full potential. All of the interpretations of Batman villains in Burton/Schumacher films were shallow and underdeveloped in their own ways, so they're all fair game to be revisited by future Batman directors.

Gene Hackman was great as Lex Luthor, but aside from a few isolated moments, he played the character as a comedic figure. His version also had a real estate fetish. A more sinister, menacing, intimidating and brilliant scientist Luthor would be fresh territory for a Superman movie (as long as he's not as boring as Spacey's Luthor).

Zod was played straight, even if his bravado was intentionally over-the-top so we could get laughs from it. He was both serious and funny. Dangerously ruthless, yet amusingly naive enough to be fooled by Superman. I can't see how anything more could be done with the character or improved from how it was written and played with Terence Stamp in the role.

For more examples of actor and role synergy that just can't be replicated, look what happened when Vince Vaughn (an actor whose work I've loved) played Norman Bates. Nobody but Anthony Perkins could do that role justice. Does anyone else want to see a new Dr. Octopus? Hans Gruber from "Die Hard"? T-1000? Keyzer Sose? Alex DeLarge? Mr. Blonde? Hans Landa? Some villains are so strongly identified with and so masterfully played by certain actors that to put anyone else in their role would just be redundant and lame.

I'm inclined to feel the same way about Terence Stamp as Zod, but actually, I'm not quite as appalled as I was about Steve Martin playing Clouseau (and I've loved Steve Martin's work too). I'm completely willing to accept the possibility that Michael Shannon could do a great job as the character and define it for a whole generation.

I just personally think it's very unnecessary. First of all because I see no reason to have someone else play a role that has (in my opinion) already been played to perfection, and second of all because it would be better and fresher to see a Superman villain who hasn't been featured in a movie before.

P.S. I accidentally wrote "Ashley J. Campbell" instead of "Ashley J. Williams", confusing the name of the character with the name of the actor. Actually, maybe that just reinforces my point by demonstrating how strongly we associate actors with characters they play brilliantly.
Too Much Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 08:47 PM   #1239
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

There's no such thing as perfection, and there's always room for a new interpretation.

I'm glad people back in Elizabethan England didn't think the same way as you. I'm not terribly fond of the idea of nobody else ever playing Romeo and Juliet, or Hamlet, or Othello, or Macbeth, after those original performers because people just couldn't fathom anyone else ever doing it better.
Skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 08:49 PM   #1240
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

^ So you can recast a superhero but not a supervillain? Or just not this particular supervillain? I just don't agree with that. I think Chris Reeve's Superman was at least as iconic and as fully played as Stamp's Zod. Stamp just played one take on Zod. You can't say the role was played to full potential until you see what someone else does with it. Should no-one else play Macbeth or Richard III because Olivier played them so well?


I don't disagree with all of your post; particularly about Vince Vaughn as Norman Bates, but I think it's fair to say that this movie will not be a shot-for-shot remake of Superman II like Gus Van Sant's Psycho. Nor do I disagree with you on the issue of necessity - but equally, do we need a new Superman movie? Do we need a new Spider-man movie, another Batman movie? Movies aren't about necessity, they're about (hopefully) entertainment. (And business too, for that matter). Zod wasn't my preferred choice for this movie's villain but I'm glad they got a good actor and one who is a very different actor to Terence Stamp to play him.

As regards Hans Gruber etc, we come back to the point that Zod is a comic strip creation, not a written-for-the-screen character like Keyser Soze or the like. As such, he's fair game for reinterpretation.

Edit - my post overlapped with that of Skywalker and is aimed at Too Much Fun. The references to Shakespearean characters are coincidental!
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 09:08 PM   #1241
Aragorn
Admiral
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
Harrison Ford is the definitive big screen middle-aged Indiana Jones. Casting anyone else in that role would be wrong and would be rightfully derided.
Harrison Ford said he has no problem with other actors taking over the role of Indiana Jones, just not until he's done with him. But hell, what does he know about Indiana Jones anyway? It's not like he's a random fan with no connection to the production whatsoever.
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 09:13 PM   #1242
JacksonArcher
Vice Admiral
 
JacksonArcher's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to JacksonArcher
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I have no problem with Zod. Michael Shannon is a terrific actor. I'm kind of surprised Snyder is nabbing so many good actors for this.
__________________
"Please... We need you to hope again... " - Professor Charles Xavier, X-Men: Days of Future Past
JacksonArcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 09:17 PM   #1243
Obiwanshinobi
Rear Admiral
 
Obiwanshinobi's Avatar
 
Location: ObiWanShinobi
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

It's not like he's a random fan with no connection to the production whatsoever.
With that said, let's all just look long and hard in the mirror and re-evaluate our lives.
Obiwanshinobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 09:21 PM   #1244
Too Much Fun
Commodore
 
Too Much Fun's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Ah, these Shakespeare questions are intriguing. I'd never considered that. Those must be some of the most endlessly reinterpreted characters in history if not THE MOST overdone characters, and I would always welcome the opportunity to see someone else's take on them.

That question about "do we even need another [insert name of superhero] movie?" is something I've thought about for awhile. I remember when "Superman Returns" was about to come out, I was telling a friend who was not very familiar with the character's movie history that I thought it was completely unnecessary because we'd already got two good Superman movies in the past.

With the first two Superman movies, the only things I didn't like were the special effects. In the first one, I hate the 'reverse time by spinning the earth' nonsense so much that I didn't purchase the movie based solely on my disgust towards that scene. In the second one, I think the final battle with Superman against Zod, Ursa, and Non looks too cheesy because of special effects limitations of the time. This made the final scenes anti-climactic for me, but I loved the rest of the movie (and especially Terence Stamp's performance, obviously) enough to buy it and watch it again and again.

Since I thought the only thing about the first two Superman movies that needed drastic improvement was the special effects, I always felt it wouldn't be very disappointing if we never got another Superman movie after "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace", because at least we'd got two movies that did the character justice.

I was much more excited about new Batman movies because I didn't think any of the first four really highlighted the character's appeal enough or treated it with the depth that it deserved. Generally with superhero movies and franchises like Star Trek (setting aside studio desire for money), the biggest reason for a reboot seems to be to wash the bad taste out of viewers' mouths left from a lesser installment.

You could argue that further Spider-Man movies are not needed since the first two movies were well done, but then "Spider-Man 3" would be the last word on the franchise, and that's a depressing note to go out on. Same goes for "Star Trek: Nemesis" (by my earlier logic, who cares if one Star Trek movie was awful when there were at least two that were critically acclaimed)?

That's why I've had mixed feelings about Superman reboots. I could never get as worked up as I did about Batman, because I've never thought "I hope someone FINALLY does the character right" since I already liked the Christopher Reeve version. As I've explained, I'm even less convinced that Zod could be done better. The biggest interest for me with a Superman movie is seeing how much more dynamic the special effects can be compared to how they were in the 70s and 80s, and that's not a reason to get very excited about a movie (compared to eagerness to see new actors, writers, and directors exploring the characters).

Okay, I've rambled a bit here, and I apologize to any who may have found this a slog. Let me put it this way and maybe we can leave it at this - to me, Terence Stamp's Zod will always be a beloved performance of a character that can never be equaled or surpassed. He will always be "my Zod". So after this movie comes out, maybe others can have their Zod and he'll still be mine, and that's fine. And just to lighten the mood after all this intense debate, let me just say: All of you people saying Terrence Stamp's Zod isn't perfect are WRONG and should all KNEEL BEFORE (Stamp's) ZOD!
Too Much Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12 2011, 09:22 PM   #1245
JacksonArcher
Vice Admiral
 
JacksonArcher's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to JacksonArcher
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Anybody catch this? Shannon talking about getting the role of General Zod.



Best quote from the video:

So I go meet him [Zack Snyder] and he’s seriously sitting there and he’s telling me – he’s like ‘You can’t read the script, so I’m just gonna tell you what happens.’ And he spent like a half hour telling me every scene in this movie…and then it’s a month later, it’s like ‘OK, you’re General Zod.’
Shannon comes off as a little wacky and kooky in that video, but I'm sure some of the best actors are like that.
__________________
"Please... We need you to hope again... " - Professor Charles Xavier, X-Men: Days of Future Past
JacksonArcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
christopher nolan, man of steel, superman, zack snyder

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.