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Old August 29 2011, 12:55 AM   #2656
Flying Spaghetti Monster
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

The thing is, Batman Begins took an hour to explain why Bruce became Batman. It was a good hour, sure but in Burton's film the reason he was Batman was because he was every bit as insane as the Joker but he channelled it differently
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Old August 29 2011, 01:00 AM   #2657
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Which is one of many reasons why I like Batman Begins better.
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Old August 29 2011, 01:32 AM   #2658
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Batman pretty clearly is deranged; I thought that was part of his appeal.
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Old August 29 2011, 01:43 AM   #2659
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Bruce has been victimized. His psychological response to that, from his position of privilege, is that he sees it as both his duty and destiny to clean up Gotham. But he does that according to rules which ensure that he remains in truth a good guy, even if society at large perceives him as a vigilante or even a villain. He plays rough because the criminals he is fighting are rough, but he keeps it on the good side and doesn't kill. That's his character when he is portrayed as a super-hero.

Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films, he becomes some sort of antihero. That might be interesting, but that's something else besides Batman, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old August 29 2011, 01:49 AM   #2660
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Well, a guy who dresses up like a bat clearly has issues.
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Old August 29 2011, 02:05 AM   #2661
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films[...]
And the early comics which drove the inspiration for Burton's films.
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Old August 29 2011, 02:10 AM   #2662
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Yeah I am a fan of both Burton's "Batman" and Nolan's "Batman Begins" for giving us two different examinations of the character of Bruce Wayne. The two actors that played also gave two completely different and distinct looks. I suspect that Henry Cavil will do the same with Clark Kent/Superman in "Man of Steel". I'm looking very much forward to the journey aspect of Clark Kent's character. "Superman: The Movie" told a version of this by having Jor-El "train" him in the Fortress of Solitude. "Smallville" had Clark go through a series of life experiences. I suspect that "Man of Steel" will do a bit of both but be more in tune with what "Batman Begins" did while being it's own movie. If that makes sense.
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Old August 29 2011, 02:20 AM   #2663
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films[...]
And the early comics which drove the inspiration for Burton's films.
Quite right. I stand corrected on that point. Batman did indeed kill in the early comics, and he also used a gun.
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Old August 29 2011, 03:22 AM   #2664
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Bruce has been victimized. His psychological response to that, from his position of privilege, is that he sees it as both his duty and destiny to clean up Gotham.
That's his rationalization. More simply:

Bruce was traumatized as a young child by seeing his parents murdered.

Bruce deals with that by dressing up as a bat and sneaking out at night to beat people up.

Lucky for us he's a good judge of character.
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Old August 29 2011, 04:02 AM   #2665
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post

The interesting thing about his Bruce Wayne is that we rarely saw him out in public. When we did, he acted either oddly eccentric (during the charity fundraiser in Batman) or was all business (during his meeting with Shreck in Batman Returns). The films never had much of a chance to play up the rich playboy the way Nolan's films have.
Which is why it was horrible. "Bruce Wayne" is not an eccentric or all business. Thats like portraying "Clark Kent" as a two fisted reporter with an ashtray full of stubbed out cigarettes and a half empty bottle of scotch in his desk drawer.
Maybe eccentric was the wrong term. Admiral Young gave the description of aloof, which works better in what I was thinking. And how come Bruce can't be all business in a business meeting? It made sense in context in that scene for him to be like that.

Anyway, that's all moot. The point I was trying to make was that we never really saw Bruce Wayne in opportunities when he could act like "Bruce Wayne".

And, your description of Clark...that would be awesome.

I don't see "Bruce Wayne" as aloof either. He's a rich wastrel playboy. Something that Bruce Wayne has taken great care to cultivate. He wants people to look askance at "Bruce Wayne" and dismiss him as a worthless child of privilege. Making him aloof, mysterious or eccentric makes him interesting to prying eyes. Making him a skilled business man also puts the wrong kind of spotlight on him. Better that folks think Fox is the real brains and power behind Wayne Enterprises. "Bruce Wayne" shouldnt be awkward (thats Kent's schtick) either. He should project the sort of arrogance that comes with wealth. power and privilege. If asked about samurai armor, he should fein ignorance about its origin and talk about the price tag or "cool factor".
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Old August 29 2011, 04:44 AM   #2666
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Except that even billionaire playboys have eccentric interests and using their money they buy and collect expensive/eccentric things like Samurai armour. It didn't make Bruce look smart or whatever when he pointed it out to Knox (besides which he was really trying to impress Vicki and wanted to make Knox look like an arse). Bruce Wayne is a man of many complexities and discipline's that he utilizes to keep the public guessing about him. That's the point.

This is going to be a ridiculous thread for another two years of going off topic when there is nothing to discuss. It also looks like I was correct about the "Man of Steel" Vancouver shoot being mostly all interior shooting, which usually takes place inside a studios (I wonder if they're going to be using the old Smallville studios?) the sets have been all dismantled and destroyed but the main buildings still stand. I was excited about getting an opportunity to maybe get some set photos but if they're doing all interior shooting there isn't much point being excited.
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Old August 29 2011, 04:50 AM   #2667
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Broccoli wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films[...]
And the early comics which drove the inspiration for Burton's films.
While it might have justified Burton going that root, I can't say it was necessarily an inspiration. If they were truly going back to roots, he would have had a gun. The "Batman doesn't kill" rule was instituted pretty early in his comics in spite of what took place before it.
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Old August 29 2011, 04:51 AM   #2668
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Besides which, hasn't Burton stated that he was inspired a great deal by Frank Miller's "Year One" and "The Dark Knight Returns"? I think that he states this in the "Batman" audio commentary.
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Old August 29 2011, 05:55 AM   #2669
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I think Burtan's Batman didnt want to kill, but thge Joker forced him to "kill', Batman tried to rescue the Joker, but couldn't. From a movie perspective,The good guy has to kill the bad guy. This has changed since the 90s, now the good guy doesn't have to do that, he can capture him so to ensure a sequel. Lewt's not forget, had Leadge not died, we'd have a very dufferebt sequel.

Regaeding this movie, I hope we still see a "Boy Scout" Supeman with a bit of optomism that Batman doesn't posses.
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Old August 29 2011, 05:57 AM   #2670
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Once you allow him to go around recklessly killing bad guys, as in the Burton films[...]
And the early comics which drove the inspiration for Burton's films.
Quite right. I stand corrected on that point. Batman did indeed kill in the early comics, and he also used a gun.
This comment comes up frequently, but I have read a number of the early 1939 Detective Comics with Batman. He has his bat cable, his batarang, a version of the batmobile, but I have never seen a comic when he used a gun. I am not saying that he didn't but I would certainly like to take a look at these stories for myself.

Can someone please refer me to a specific comic or two?
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