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Old April 10 2012, 01:13 AM   #811
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Snaploud wrote: View Post
I would just like to take a moment to point out the competition (in bold):

Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form

“The Doctor’s Wife” (Doctor Who), written by Neil Gaiman; directed by Richard Clark (BBC Wales)
“The Drink Tank’s Hugo Acceptance Speech,” Christopher J Garcia and James Bacon (Renovation)
“The Girl Who Waited” (Doctor Who), written by Tom MacRae; directed by Nick Hurran (BBC Wales)
“A Good Man Goes to War” (Doctor Who), written by Steven Moffat; directed by Peter Hoar (BBC Wales)
“Remedial Chaos Theory” (Community), written by Dan Harmon and Chris McKenna; directed by Jeff Melman (NBC)
Between that, the Gollum MTV Movie Award acceptance speech, and nominating an episode of a fan film series in 2008 ("World Enough and Time" from Star Trek: New Voyages), I gotta say, I don't have a lot of respect for the Best Dramatic Presentation Hugo's nomination standards.

ETA:

(I disagree with nominating "Remedial Chaos Theory," for the reasons I've outlined, but I don't fundamentally disrespect it. If we accept that those were actual alternate timelines and not Abed's musings, "Remedial Chaos Theory" is a perfectly legitimate and thought-provoking -- and hilarious! -- episode of science fiction. But these other nominations are just bullshit.)
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Old April 10 2012, 01:16 AM   #812
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

What's wrong with the nominating a fan film series?
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Old April 10 2012, 01:20 AM   #813
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
What's wrong with the nominating a fan film series?
The problem is that is exactly that - a fan film series. In other words, not a professional production.

This has more to do with the fact that there are other, professional productions out there competing for the award that otherwise lost their chance at winning because of all the press "World Enough and Time" got because of Takei's involvement and, rightly, because of how well-made it was. I can't recall at the time whether there was anything in the rules about the Hugo awards prohibiting the fan film from competing, but I remember an awful lot of professional writers, directors and voters were not pleased about it's being submitted and nominated.
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Old April 10 2012, 01:35 AM   #814
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
What's wrong with the nominating a fan film series?
Let me put it this way:

Should the Nobel Committee nominate a work of fan fiction in a field that's competing against professional literature? No, of course not.

Would you put a fan-written and produced sequel to Les Miserables up for a Tony? No, of course not.

Because the standards of quality are completely different, and because it's inappropriate to nominate an unauthorized, unlicensed work of fiction based upon someone else's copyrighted work up against original copyrighted work.

If the Hugos want to be in the business of nominating fan films, or CGI characters' awards acceptance skits, they should create a "Best Fan Film Installment" category, and a "Best Genre Short" or "Best Genre Skit" category.
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Old April 10 2012, 01:53 AM   #815
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

I see your point Sci, and while there are some bad fan produced stuff out there, there is some extremely good ones as well. Such as The Joker Blogs which is probably my favourite Batman related fan produced project. The quality and dedication these guys have put into their work blows most everything else away. It would be one thing if it were crap being produced, but I have no problem if it is quality. It is rare yes, but quality stuff is there. I think your parameters are a little narrow minded to be honest. Perhaps your suggestion of a Fan Produced category should be something the Hugo committee or whoever is in charge should consider. Also didn't "Sanctuary" start as a fan series on the web? Look at "Red Vs Blue" as well. Lots of examples. Both original and fan projects. Anyway this type of discussion really belongs in it's own thread I think.


I still haven't seen the last two episodes either
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Old April 10 2012, 02:04 AM   #816
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I see your point Sci, and while there are some bad fan produced stuff out there, there is some extremely good ones as well. Such as The Joker Blogs which is probably my favourite Batman related fan produced project. The quality and dedication these guys have put into their work blows most everything else away. It would be one thing if it were crap being produced, but I have no problem if it is quality. It is rare yes, but quality stuff is there. I think your parameters are a little narrow minded to be honest. Perhaps your suggestion of a Fan Produced category should be something the Hugo committee or whoever is in charge should consider. Also didn't "Sanctuary" start as a fan series on the web? Look at "Red Vs Blue" as well. Lots of examples. Both original and fan projects. Anyway this type of discussion really belongs in it's own thread I think.


I still haven't seen the last two episodes either

Nobody is disputing the quality of some of the fan films. "World Enough and Time" is easily the best show the crew at New Voyages has done. You yourself cite the Joker Blogs. These are exceptions to the rule.

But there are guidelines for these awards considerations, and the advent and advancement of technologies allowing more people to make films and make them easily accessible is blurring the lines between amateur and professional quality filmmaking.

Would you expect the Joker Blogs to compete in an awards race up against The Dark Knight? Of course not. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Too, the element of intellectual property becomes more important in these proceedings. Fan films aren't supposed to generate income for their producers. What happens if their film wins prize money? It's one thing to get a trophy, but once there's money exchanging hands, don't you think the copyright holders are going to get involved?

I don't think it is narrow minded at all to consider these items in a situation like this, no matter how good the fan film is.

As for Sanctuary, it was a webseries produced at no cost in 2007 that SciFi picked up and expanded in to an actual television series. So no, it was not a fan series before becoming a TV show.
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Old April 10 2012, 02:11 AM   #817
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

I didn't think about those points Double Oh...all of which are great ones, especially the infringement on rights point which has derailed numerous project for obvious reasons. I wasn't clear on the "Sanctuary" thing either, so thanks for clearing that up. I thought perhaps Sci was "looking down" upon fan films but now see that he wasn't and I take my my narrow minded comment and apologize
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Old April 10 2012, 02:17 AM   #818
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

There's no need to apologize, but I appreciate the offer I think it's just that we live in a very interesting time thanks to the rapid advancement of technologies in everyday life.

I was seated on a jury last year and managed to get myself excused because a key piece of evidence the prosecutors wanted to use was a video they'd made of the defendant without his knowledge. When they questioned me before starting the proceedings, I very seriously pointed out how uncomfortable I was with this as I knew it was already illegal to use wiretapped/recorded conversations without a person's consent -- why should video recorded under similar circumstances be admissable?

Things like this need to be sorted out and decided upon in advance before law can be applied to it. Likewise, the blurred line of quality between fan films and professional productions complicates things like awards qualifications as we've discussed. Its just a fact of life today, but one that most people tend to shrug off without considering the actual, practical implications of said fact.
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Old April 10 2012, 02:17 AM   #819
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

^^ Doubleohfive sums up my thoughts fairly well. I don't think it's fair to professionals or to fan film creators to have their works compete against one-another, for all the reasons he cited. It's not fair to professionals, who have worked to build solid careers and should be judged against the standards set by their fellow professionals; and it's not fair to the fan film creators, who have to work to create something of quality with far fewer resources (in money, equipment, and, often, numbers of talented performers) than a professional production has access to.
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Old April 10 2012, 03:41 AM   #820
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

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@Zoom Sci pointed out why he thinks Abed is imagining the timelines in another post, the point that made sense the most to me is that Abed imagined the Christmas claymation episode. I then furthered the thought that since he imagined the claymation due to having problems with not being at home for the holidays, he could be imagining this due to some problems he is going through. Perhaps between him and Troy, or him and the group, so he's internalizing whatever it is.
However, IN the claymation episode it's made VERY clear that Abed is imagining this and the group is playing along. There is no such indication in the alternative timelines episode at all. Within the episode, what evidence is there that Abed is imagining it?
Well, there's the fact that it's Abed who introduces the concept, and who then ushers us back into the "regular" timeline. It's Abed who muses that the roll of the dice will create multiple timelines, and Abed who brings us back. It's also Dark Timeline Abed, in the credits sequence, who declares that his timeline is the "darkest" timeline and decides to start wearing an Evil Spock Goatee -- something not likely to happen if Dark Timeline Abed actually believed his timeline was the timeline; it sounds more to me like the depiction of Abed's imagined alternate self in his own mind than something any version of Abed would actually think.

And then, of course, a few weeks ago, Abed "encounters" the Dark Timeline Abed while in the Dreamatorium--and somehow Dark Timeline Abed just happens to have gotten ahold of a space ship and has been somehow monitoring events in the Prime Timeline? It's highly implausible.

So it all seems more likely to me that the alternate timelines were Abed's musings rather than "actual" alternate timelines.
I can see that. Though, it feel like he's the one explaining the idea, setting it up, to the cast (a stand in for the audience.) Of all the characters who is going to explain alternative timelines, he's the only reasonable choice.

As far as Darktimeline Abed, I don't know if I agree. Darktimeline Abed could be just as meta as "our" Abed. He saw how bad things got, and realizes that in a different timeline things must've turned out ok. So, he makes the logical assumption this is the bad timeline, thus the goatee.

It's like when you get into a car accident, in another timeline, you didn't. And THAT'S the good one, you know?

(As far as the return... don't know...)

Personally, I also think it's a less risky choice for it to only have taken place in Abed's imagination.
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Old April 10 2012, 03:42 AM   #821
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

The Hugos are nominated by the attendees, and often comes down to who has the most and most active fans among them. The Drunk Tank's acceptance speech was amusing, but it was hardly a dramatic presentation. Being an active member of the fandom earns you a lot of points and pull amongst the voters though and some of the categories only get a few nominees and often the winners are only by a few votes. You just have to kind of accept that the nomination process is a bit incestuous and move on.
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Old April 10 2012, 07:48 AM   #822
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Sci wrote: View Post
Well, there's the fact that it's Abed who introduces the concept, and who then ushers us back into the "regular" timeline. It's Abed who muses that the roll of the dice will create multiple timelines, and Abed who brings us back. It's also Dark Timeline Abed, in the credits sequence, who declares that his timeline is the "darkest" timeline and decides to start wearing an Evil Spock Goatee -- something not likely to happen if Dark Timeline Abed actually believed his timeline was the timeline; it sounds more to me like the depiction of Abed's imagined alternate self in his own mind than something any version of Abed would actually think.

And then, of course, a few weeks ago, Abed "encounters" the Dark Timeline Abed while in the Dreamatorium--and somehow Dark Timeline Abed just happens to have gotten ahold of a space ship and has been somehow monitoring events in the Prime Timeline? It's highly implausible.

So it all seems more likely to me that the alternate timelines were Abed's musings rather than "actual" alternate timelines.
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Old April 10 2012, 11:03 PM   #823
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

This is pretty awesome.

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/04/09...an-easter-egg/
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Old April 11 2012, 05:41 PM   #824
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Vampire orgins sounds like fun.
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Old April 11 2012, 07:01 PM   #825
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Re: Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

Like I said, the Dark timeline is a figment of Abed's subconscious and this was why when "Evil Abed" was born Abed suddenly "sensed" something. It wasn't just some joke, it was him having an inkling of this potentially dangerous new personality being formed in his subconscious.

And since the Evil Timeline was caused by the removal of Troy, when Abed is having issues with Troy he hallucinates Evil Abed.
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