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Old January 6 2011, 07:14 PM   #1
RAMA
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STO wins player's choice awards

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/01...wards-results/

Almost a whopping 48% picked it as the best launch in 2010.

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Old January 7 2011, 12:17 AM   #2
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Yeah... but... "none of the above" won second place... so really, not that big an achievement... and of those titles listed, only FFXIV was the other triple-A title and that was an awful POS mess.
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Old January 7 2011, 01:19 AM   #3
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

What's next, Majora's Mask wins game of the decade?
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Old January 7 2011, 02:46 AM   #4
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Yeah it was like winning the special Olympics this year.

GOD I wish Bioware could have taken a crack at it. ME2 + Star Trek = drool.
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Old January 7 2011, 04:27 AM   #5
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Oh, that would have been excellent. A Bioware Trek RPG? This is what dreams are made of.
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Old January 8 2011, 07:01 PM   #6
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Oh, that would have been excellent. A Bioware Trek RPG? This is what dreams are made of.
This is my ultimate Trek Gaming fantasy. A Bioware single-player RPG in the Trek universe.

I also want to see a Mass Effect MMO. That's one where I'd probably break my MMO rule and actually subscribe.
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Old January 8 2011, 07:13 PM   #7
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

CaptJimboJones wrote: View Post
Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Oh, that would have been excellent. A Bioware Trek RPG? This is what dreams are made of.
This is my ultimate Trek Gaming fantasy. A Bioware single-player RPG in the Trek universe.

I also want to see a Mass Effect MMO. That's one where I'd probably break my MMO rule and actually subscribe.
I'd subscribe in a heartbeat. Mass Effect is one of the best new IPs of the decade.

Bioware is a company that can really almost do no wrong. I'm also really looking forward to their Old Republic MMO. If any MMO has a chance of knocking WoW off its throne, it'd be that one. Plus, it'll be nice to have a good sci-fi MMO finally (if it is actually good).
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Old January 8 2011, 08:02 PM   #8
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Oh why didn't CBS hire Bioware???? It's Star Trek for cripes sake!!! Not some no name wannbe! It's Star Trek!! And they got Cryptic.... way to go cheap.... I have a feeling Neverwinter Nights is gonna be the EXACT same thing as COH/CO/STO.... What a horrible engine!
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Old January 8 2011, 08:11 PM   #9
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Commodore_Rook wrote: View Post
Oh why didn't CBS hire Bioware???? It's Star Trek for cripes sake!!! Not some no name wannbe! It's Star Trek!! And they got Cryptic.... way to go cheap.... I have a feeling Neverwinter Nights is gonna be the EXACT same thing as COH/CO/STO.... What a horrible engine!
Yeah, I agree - CBS didn't even get Cryptic at first either, did they? They got some no name and Cryptic just picked up on what they had and worked it into their generic engine. Story is one area where STO really is hurting too and Bioware is so very good at story.
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Old January 8 2011, 09:10 PM   #10
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

I mean STO isn't the worst game there is and is steadily improving, but just imagine what Bioware could have done with it??? Well maybe in 5-10 years when STO2 comes out!
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Old January 8 2011, 09:53 PM   #11
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

After coming back to it, it is improved, but it seems like a lot of the improvements are more superficial than anything. It's gone from a C to a C+ in my opinion. Not that a C or C+ is bad (not looking to start a war in this thread too), it's just that I think we can agree Bioware would have done amazing things with it.
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Old January 9 2011, 12:31 AM   #12
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Commodore_Rook wrote: View Post
Oh why didn't CBS hire Bioware???? It's Star Trek for cripes sake!!! Not some no name wannbe! It's Star Trek!! And they got Cryptic.... way to go cheap.... I have a feeling Neverwinter Nights is gonna be the EXACT same thing as COH/CO/STO.... What a horrible engine!
Yeah, I agree - CBS didn't even get Cryptic at first either, did they? They got some no name and Cryptic just picked up on what they had and worked it into their generic engine. Story is one area where STO really is hurting too and Bioware is so very good at story.

Perpetual Entertainment and they were a startup. They seemed to have a lot of good ideas and innovations about STO. They knew that it shouldn't have been a simple MMO, as compared to Cryptic forcing STO into their MMO mould. It looked to be heading in a promising direction, but they ran out of money and were forced to sell the property. Apparently they were also not developing fast enough to satisfy investors, but if you google some of the early STO stuff, you'll see some very interesting art. They just didn't have enough to show for it that they were actually making good progress. They were building a new engine, which is most likely the reason it was taking so long, but they were thinking it from the point of view of building a good Trek game and building a suitable engine for it rather than the other way around like Cryptic has done. The STO that we got was far less interesting than what we would have gotten with Perpetual, something that makes me bitter everytime I remember about it. When it happened that Cryptic got the license, people were pissed off because they knew that the innovations that Perpetual had would never happen, having it go to a company that wasn't known for its innovations, but cookie cutter MMOs. The end result of that is exactly what we got. I see Bioware striving to make something different in KOTOR, just like Perpetual were striving to make something different in STO.
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Old January 9 2011, 12:51 AM   #13
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Commodore_Rook wrote: View Post
Oh why didn't CBS hire Bioware???? It's Star Trek for cripes sake!!! Not some no name wannbe! It's Star Trek!! And they got Cryptic.... way to go cheap.... I have a feeling Neverwinter Nights is gonna be the EXACT same thing as COH/CO/STO.... What a horrible engine!
Yeah, I agree - CBS didn't even get Cryptic at first either, did they? They got some no name and Cryptic just picked up on what they had and worked it into their generic engine. Story is one area where STO really is hurting too and Bioware is so very good at story.

Perpetual Entertainment and they were a startup. They seemed to have a lot of good ideas and innovations about STO. They knew that it shouldn't have been a simple MMO, as compared to Cryptic forcing STO into their MMO mould. It looked to be heading in a promising direction, but they ran out of money and were forced to sell the property. Apparently they were also not developing fast enough to satisfy investors, but if you google some of the early STO stuff, you'll see some very interesting art. They just didn't have enough to show for it that they were actually making good progress. They were building a new engine, which is most likely the reason it was taking so long, but they were thinking it from the point of view of building a good Trek game and building a suitable engine for it rather than the other way around like Cryptic has done. The STO that we got was far less interesting than what we would have gotten with Perpetual, something that makes me bitter everytime I remember about it.
The problem was Perpetual WASN'T making ANY progress at all. In fours years with the property, all Perpetual produced was a few pages of concept art and 3 'test render frames' NOT done with their MMO engine and which even Perpetual admitted at the time - no consumer PC hardware could render.

Yes, they went bankrupt, but CBS was REALLY upset with the fact that after 4 years, basically nothing had been done, so, when CBS was shopping the property, one thing they told any interested developers was that said developer would HAVE to contractuallu accept a release date set by CBS; (because CBS didn't want a repeat of the Perpetual situation); and had to prove to CBS that they could make the date with a viable product.

That's what Cryptic wwent in knowing, and that's WHY the game was released when it was. From what I understand, there weren't to many development companies willing to acvcept all that, and of the 3 that attempted it; Cryptic was the one that had the best 'proof of concept' for CBS.

I alwasys lugh when people say "Pepetual would have done as awsome job", again, because in 4 years, they should havce been able to do more than some concept art and test renders. Plus, I'm sorry, but:

"Working your way up by starting as a crewman on an assigned ship doing day to day tasks"

may sound Star Trek, and there are a few fans who would love that level of detail; but I don't hink that type of game would have appealed to the larger audience of MMO players such a game has to attract and retain.

Perpetual was a sham company, hoping either for a miricle, or a way to embezzle any development money into the founders pockets before CBS got wise, imo.
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Old January 9 2011, 03:37 AM   #14
Owain Taggart
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
Bishop76 wrote: View Post

Yeah, I agree - CBS didn't even get Cryptic at first either, did they? They got some no name and Cryptic just picked up on what they had and worked it into their generic engine. Story is one area where STO really is hurting too and Bioware is so very good at story.

Perpetual Entertainment and they were a startup. They seemed to have a lot of good ideas and innovations about STO. They knew that it shouldn't have been a simple MMO, as compared to Cryptic forcing STO into their MMO mould. It looked to be heading in a promising direction, but they ran out of money and were forced to sell the property. Apparently they were also not developing fast enough to satisfy investors, but if you google some of the early STO stuff, you'll see some very interesting art. They just didn't have enough to show for it that they were actually making good progress. They were building a new engine, which is most likely the reason it was taking so long, but they were thinking it from the point of view of building a good Trek game and building a suitable engine for it rather than the other way around like Cryptic has done. The STO that we got was far less interesting than what we would have gotten with Perpetual, something that makes me bitter everytime I remember about it.
The problem was Perpetual WASN'T making ANY progress at all. In fours years with the property, all Perpetual produced was a few pages of concept art and 3 'test render frames' NOT done with their MMO engine and which even Perpetual admitted at the time - no consumer PC hardware could render.

Yes, they went bankrupt, but CBS was REALLY upset with the fact that after 4 years, basically nothing had been done, so, when CBS was shopping the property, one thing they told any interested developers was that said developer would HAVE to contractuallu accept a release date set by CBS; (because CBS didn't want a repeat of the Perpetual situation); and had to prove to CBS that they could make the date with a viable product.

That's what Cryptic wwent in knowing, and that's WHY the game was released when it was. From what I understand, there weren't to many development companies willing to acvcept all that, and of the 3 that attempted it; Cryptic was the one that had the best 'proof of concept' for CBS.

I alwasys lugh when people say "Pepetual would have done as awsome job", again, because in 4 years, they should havce been able to do more than some concept art and test renders. Plus, I'm sorry, but:

"Working your way up by starting as a crewman on an assigned ship doing day to day tasks"

may sound Star Trek, and there are a few fans who would love that level of detail; but I don't hink that type of game would have appealed to the larger audience of MMO players such a game has to attract and retain.

Perpetual was a sham company, hoping either for a miricle, or a way to embezzle any development money into the founders pockets before CBS got wise, imo.
It's common for game production to take 4 years, sometimes more, especially when an engine is made from scratch. Point is, we still don't know how much progress they had done with their engine when all they could show were concepts and art. And I do understand that CBS was upset, but I never saw it as a sham. Rather, I saw it as a heavy risk that CBS invested in considering they were an upstart. The only crime they've committed was for being too ambitious and taking on the property as one of their first projects, so I don't see the conspiracy that some like to see surrounding this. The only reason why STO was released 2 years after being announced being in the hands of Cryptic was because an engine was already developed. If an engine hadn't been ready, I'm sure it would have taken 3 if not 4 years to develop.

A game is more the sum of its parts. You can't innovate without thinking ahead, even though some ideas sound bad on paper. Fact is, at least they were trying in an age where all MMOs were feeling stale. It's why I have a lot of respect for Bioware for the things they're doing with The Old Republic, striving to try new things in the MMO genre instead of going where every other MMO has gone before. And I had a lot of respect for Perpetual. Was Perpetual perfect? No. Is Bioware perfect? No. The only difference between them is that one of them has the backing to do what they want since they're so good at what they do, so they're largely left alone. The upstart didn't have that luxury and investors were getting anxious.
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Old January 9 2011, 04:50 AM   #15
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Re: STO wins player's choice awards

No, there was no conspiracy, just over reaching their ability. I agree that I would have loved to have seen what they might have done with their engine. The WoW clone business is getting old, even if it is the best that's out there right now.
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