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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old January 2 2011, 07:05 PM   #1
FalTorPan
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TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Bella?

Recently I watched the second and third TWILIGHT movies. (My wife wanted to watch them, since she'd read all of the books. A couple years ago, we watched the first TWILIGHT movie for the same reason.)

I didn't care for any of the movies. The biggest mystery to me is why vampire guy and werewolf guy are both so smitten with Bella. Whenever she isn't begging to be changed, she's moping around as if it's all she can do not to jump off of a bridge.

The vampire guy / werewolf guy / Bella love triangle reminds me of the Popeye / Bluto-Brutus / Olive Oyl love triangle, in that I don't get what Popeye or Bluto-Brutus see in Olive Oyl, but at least Olive Oyl isn't depressed all the time.

What am I missing?
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Old January 2 2011, 07:12 PM   #2
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Aside from her not being all-together un-attractive? I've no idea what they see in her as she doesn't seem that interesting. This is another one of the problems with this movie/book series as the characters are smitten with Bella simply because the plot says-so.
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Old January 2 2011, 07:52 PM   #3
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

I think it's because she's a down-to-earth tomboy. However, she's weak and pathetic and practically screams "rape me, o mythical creatures".
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Old January 2 2011, 08:50 PM   #4
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

I tried reading the book, at a friend’s insistence. Gave up about halfway through.

There’s a girl who has no clear thing about that’s unique or attractive. She wasn’t that popular at her old school, but for some reason, she’s MEGA-popular at her new school. Everyone that meets her wants her to be their BFF. Meanwhile, the only thing on her mind is how dreamy Edward is--why?

The movie was better, but while the actress is nice looking, she’s not gorgeous. She displays no outstanding personality (the role, not the actress herself), so still no idea what they see in her.
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Old January 2 2011, 09:55 PM   #5
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

It's wish fulfillment fantasy for girls, so Bella needs no justification to be catnip for sexy supernatural beings. In fact, if she were played by a more conventionally "hot" actress, or had more obviously outstanding and attractive qualities, that would defeat the purpose.

You know all those shows and movies where some scrawny nerd gets a hot chick even though she should be out of his league? It's like that.
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Old January 2 2011, 09:56 PM   #6
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

I suppose she gets points for not running screaming into the night when she finds out her prospective love interests are a vampire and werewolf, but, yeah, it's really unclear in the book why everyone at her new school is so enthralled with her . . . .
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Old January 2 2011, 10:03 PM   #7
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
It's wish fulfillment fantasy for girls, so Bella needs no justification to be catnip for sexy supernatural beings. In fact, if she were played by a more conventionally "hot" actress, or had more obviously outstanding and attractive qualities, that would defeat the purpose.

You know all those shows and movies where some scrawny nerd gets a hot chick even though she should be out of his league? It's like that.
Amen. As funny as the movie Superbad is I can't stand it because the Jonah Hill character is not only unattractive, but also a complete dick to everyone - yet he pulls the hottest chick at school at the end of the movie.
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Old January 2 2011, 10:24 PM   #8
Lookingglassman
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

I have no idea since she is ugly. If I was a vampire I would go after Jessica Alba or Beyonce.
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Old January 2 2011, 11:02 PM   #9
Gaith
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
It's wish fulfillment fantasy for girls, so Bella needs no justification to be catnip for sexy supernatural beings. In fact, if she were played by a more conventionally "hot" actress, or had more obviously outstanding and attractive qualities, that would defeat the purpose.

You know all those shows and movies where some scrawny nerd gets a hot chick even though she should be out of his league? It's like that.
Amen. As funny as the movie Superbad is I can't stand it because the Jonah Hill character is not only unattractive, but also a complete dick to everyone - yet he pulls the hottest chick at school at the end of the movie.
See also: McLovin, Seth Rogen in Knocked Up... yeah.
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Old January 3 2011, 01:12 AM   #10
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

i like alice out of vampire chicks in the twilight saga. and what was with that bree tannen story anyway. and if you like love triangle try laurrel k hamilton's anita blake series . Half german and hispanic chick in love with a alpha werewolf and a master vampire who wants her.
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Old January 3 2011, 01:26 AM   #11
Greg Cox
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
It's wish fulfillment fantasy for girls, so Bella needs no justification to be catnip for sexy supernatural beings. In fact, if she were played by a more conventionally "hot" actress, or had more obviously outstanding and attractive qualities, that would defeat the purpose.

You know all those shows and movies where some scrawny nerd gets a hot chick even though she should be out of his league? It's like that.

I think you've nailed it . . . .
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Old January 3 2011, 01:28 AM   #12
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

I wonder greatly if the assertion that Kristen Stewart isn't pretty Goddamn eye-pleasing is some kind of ridiculous Internet standards thing, or (more understandably) a loathing for Twilight in general coloring perceptions, but the truth's gotta be faced, there ain't a percent of the population here pulling anyone nearly as hot.

So, yeah, in that regard, I can sort of see where Edward was coming from, in that it'd be interesting to make her beg for sex. That would liven up Year 100 of my abominable existence.

That said, she's not the hottest person in those movies: the Asian girl who gets about eight lines between three movies is hotter, and of course Ashley Greene is hotter. Indeed, in retrospect it's pretty obvious that Greene and the guy that plays Harpo probably should've been cast in the lead roles, in that while neither one are especially good at least there's some onscreen chemistry. (Of course, if there were onscreen chemistry with the leads, the films would be beyond worthless, as they would no longer be the terrific comedies they've become.)
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Old January 3 2011, 02:51 AM   #13
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
It's wish fulfillment fantasy for girls, so Bella needs no justification to be catnip for sexy supernatural beings. In fact, if she were played by a more conventionally "hot" actress, or had more obviously outstanding and attractive qualities, that would defeat the purpose.

You know all those shows and movies where some scrawny nerd gets a hot chick even though she should be out of his league? It's like that.
Amen. As funny as the movie Superbad is I can't stand it because the Jonah Hill character is not only unattractive, but also a complete dick to everyone - yet he pulls the hottest chick at school at the end of the movie.
Yeah, hell I didn't even get how he had Michael Cera's character as a friend let alone pulls the hottest girl in the school as a GF.

That said, she's not the hottest person in those movies: the Asian girl who gets about eight lines between three movies is hotter, and of course Ashley Greene is hotter. Indeed, in retrospect it's pretty obvious that Greene and the guy that plays Harpo probably should've been cast in the lead roles, in that while neither one are especially good at least there's some onscreen chemistry. (Of course, if there were onscreen chemistry with the leads, the films would be beyond worthless, as they would no longer be the terrific comedies they've become.)
"Harpo"

Yeah Ashley Green and Anna Kendrick are very good looking but I wouldn't say Kristen Stewart is bad looking by any stretch (the "stigma" of Bella or not.) If Ashley Green and Harpo were in the lead roles (Edward and Bella) I don't think it'd be any better because Bella and Edward aren't boring because of the actors (who're both fairly good and capable) they're boring simply because there's no reason for them to be interesting.

We're simply told they're interesting, awesome and perfect and are expected to run with it. Meanwhile all of the other secondary characters (including Jacob) are vastly more interesting since they're given a vastly more interesting backstory, front story and orbiting characters. Hell, in the last movie the "falshback" scenes of Hapro's and the Kill Bill vampire chick's entire two-minute back story moments are vastly more interesting than the movies since they give these characters more depth beyond "these people have issues so they're mopey, tense, assholes."

Jacob is given hints of a "backstory" or at least what he's going through in his tribe/pack through interactions with his parents. But with Bella and Edward we're just simply told they're awesome and perfect and they're meant to be together. And, somehow, characters we're given no information on (like Kendrick's character) are more interesting because they're more dynamic and are more interesting than "sweetly klutzy."

I will say though that Kendrick's character's Valedictorian speech is the worst Valedictorian speech in the history of speeches yet it's, somehow, supposed to justify what Bella is going to do.

Throughout the bulk of the third movie Bella struggles, a bit, with whether or not she wants to be with Edward or Jacob and she realizes to be with Edward she has to die and become an undead blood beast of the night.

So she asks most of her family and friends what she should do, or slightly probes them for information and they all pretty much tell her "You have your whole life to live, don't fuck it up now."

Harpo and Rosalie both tell Bella the story of how they became vampires (both very interesting stories that'd make great movies in themselves) and tell these stories with regret over what they've become or have to live with in the aftermath. Rosalie even resents Bella since Bella is alive and has the ability to do what Rosalie once wanted, get married, have children and a happy life.

(Remember, at this point Bella doesn't know it's even possible for her to have a child with Edward and she also knows that "new born" vampires are very blood-thirsty and hard to control, she doesn't know how "special" she is and what will happen to her over the course of the next (two) movie(s))

Jacob tells Bella she's making a mistake and even shows her that, hey, he's a living being with a pulse, blood, warmth and that he can give Bella a life! He can give her something Edward can't up to and including a life without being pretty much in the run and hiding from the oppressive force of the Roman Vampires of Fey Acting.

Then Jessica gives her Valedictorian speech and it's the worst Valedictorian speech in the history of Valedictorians. And my high school's Valedictorian read us her favorite pre-school aged book that she claimed drove her life up to that point.

Jessica pretty much says "young young, you have no responsibilities or expectations to meet for anyone in the world so go out there and fuck up your life and figure it out later."

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

WHAT?!!

No. That's what the last eighteen years were mostly about. Now you're legally adults and are now expected to plan for future, get your life in order and get an education or job that'll help support you for the next sixty or seventy years of existence. Now isn't the time to go screwing around.

But, fine, for most of the kids in their high school they can spend the next few years wearing wife-beater and boxers while living in their parents' basement smoking dope and watching Sponge Bob cartoons. Then they can get their life in order and get a job or an education. I think that's stupid, as it's harder to get back into school after a period of time without it, but it can be done. Plenty of people have entered post-secondary education in their 20s, 30s or 40s in order to get their life in shape and finally become a damn adult. I'll roll with that.

But from Jessica's speech we're supposed to agree with and understand the choice Bella is going to make. And that is to die and become a blood-thristy monster! It's not like there's a way to "un-do" vampirism otherwise Rosalie or Harpo would've likely taken them. Bella is making a choice that will permanently drive her life not just for the next 60-80 years of human lifespan but for an eternity! It's a choice she can't turn back from, undo or turn around later. It doesn't apply at all to Jessica's speech! Bella makes a terrible decision to end her life that as far as she knows means she won't be able to have children, she'll have a blood-lust and she'll never be able to see her mother or father again both of whom will have to live with the pain of losing their only child.

Yeah. Great fucking decision, Bella and a wonderful damn Valedictorian speech Jessica!

"Go out and become irresponsible teenagers and fuck around being a symbol of everything that is said is wrong with the youth of America and figure out how to clean your mess up later."

I've talked with people about Twilight before and a friend's wife laughed when she heard me talk about it as she was "surprised" I knew the plots of the book (having only read synopses of them) and the movies) and I often get asked if I'm "Team Edward" or "Team Jacob." I respond with "Team Edward" because I think that Jacob is a nice guy, an interesting guy and he has his heart (his live, blood bumping, warm, functional heart) in the right place. He deserves something better than Bella (and better than falling in love with a newborn who will only age to that of a permanently illegal teenager) who is such a mindless, depressing and boring twit she deserves to be in a boring relationship filled with longing looks in shade-covered forests wondering which woodland creature she's going to murder and suck the blood out of.
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Last edited by Trekker4747; January 3 2011 at 03:19 AM.
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Old January 3 2011, 04:07 AM   #14
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Hmm. I had exactly the opposite take on the valedectorian speech scene. I don't think it was meant to encourage Bella to go ahead and become a vampire, but to give her second thoughts about changing.

Think about it. The gist of the speech, such as it is, is "Hey, we're still young. Nothing is set in stone. We still have plenty of time to figure who and what we want to be."

Unlike Bella, whose future will be fixed for all eternity if she changes.

The way I read that scene, Bella is sitting in the audience thinking, "Oh shit. Maybe I need to rethink this vampire business. Maybe I should keep my options open like the rest of my human friends."

This interpretation gibes with the rest of the movie in which everyone in the world tells Bella to think twice about changing.

Inevitably, of course, she decides she want to be undead with Edward anyway, because of True Love and all, but it's not because of that speech. I think that speech was meant to be a speed bump along the way, not something that made her decision for her.
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Old January 3 2011, 04:52 AM   #15
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Re: TWILIGHT -- What Do the Vampire Guy and the Werewolf Guy See in Be

Ok, I have read the books and watched the movies. And the books do (on the surface at least) touch upon the attraction.

Bella is an attractive person, but she doesn't see herself as attractive. She is a clutz, gets tongue tied, and is painfully shy. Thus in a town like Phoenix that is much , much larger you see are going to see far, far more women who embrace their physicality.

WHen she moves to Forks, she is of course immediately the center of attention and the people focus on her physical beauty (a side she doesn't see) and the "new toy" attraction that does occur in real life.


Edward's attraction is straight forward, he is deeply attracted to her scent (in fact so much that it really consumes him, thus the beginning stage of obsession), and he loves the fact that he isn't bombarded by her thoughts (unlike everyone else, including other vamps). He has a similar personality shy, reserved (even with his family), and enjoys that aspect of her personality. So he has a exceptionally strong physical attraction to her by scent, he finds her extremely pleasing on the, he loves the peace he finds in not being able to access her mind, and of course the mystery of having someone who he doesn't know literally everything about, and has a similar personality. She isn't repulsed by him, and she puts great importance on protecting his secrets. Not hard to understand.

Jacob, I never really got.

And of course, why she puts up with the abusive behavior from both of them, yikes.

I mean look at all the movies where the guys are either physically unattractive or just asses and yet they get the girls. Well I assume that they are written by men, or written to appeal to the male viewer.

But Twilight is written by a women, and aimed at girls, its an utterly terrible example.
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