TP: Rough Beasts of Empire by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[kaysea]

Rosalind wrote:

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^ Sorry kaysea, I know you're trying to do a nice thing for your fellow posters, but David has requested that the passage be deleted (considering the book only just start to appear in the shops).

.

[KingstonTrekker]

kaysea wrote:

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ok. here's a summary of it;

You are not getting it...the author has asked that such specific details not be shared in this thread because the book has just appeared in book stores. Why do you feel the need to describe to us what the Tzenkethi look like? If people want to know, they can read the book. Describing the Tzenkethi does not add anything to a review/discussion of the book in this thread.

[kaysea]

... because the excerpt was a word for word text of the Tzenkethi description. I can see David having a problem with that. But I can't put a summary of what they look like? that's ridiculous.

Why do I feel the need? because someone simply asked to know what the Tzenkethi are.

[David R. George III]

^ Could you at least put the details in spoiler tags please? My novel just came out, and I'd appreciate a little consideration of that.

[kaysea]

ok done

[David R. George III]

^ Thank you (although honestly, I'd prefer you use your own words, rather than mine; just because you don't enclose my words in quotation marks does not mean that's not my description).

[kaysea]

OK fuck it. I just deleted it, happy? satisfied now? not worth the hassle.

On a side note good work on the book. I had fun guessing who was actually doing the plotting.

[KingstonTrekker]

kaysea wrote:

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OK **** it. I just deleted it, happy? satisfied now? not worth the hassle.
.

There is no need for foul language.

You did not understand the moderator's comments and you then proceeded to plagiarize the author with your "summary"...and now you are upset? The way I see it, you definitely did create a bit of a hassle in this thread -- be frustrated with yourself rather than others since the person who caused hassles here was you. That should make you stop and think "Gee...maybe the problem is with me" rather than branding people's reactions to your post as being "ridiculous."

[kaysea]

KingstonTrekker wrote:

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There is no need for foul language.

You did not understand the moderator's comments and you then proceeded to plagiarize the author with your "summary"...and now you are upset? The way I see it, you definitely did create a bit of a hassle in this thread -- be frustrated with yourself rather than others since the person who caused hassles here was you. That should make you stop and think "Gee...maybe the problem is with me" rather than branding people's reactions to your post as being "ridiculous."

ugh, whatever guy. You need to lighten up.

ON that note I'm off this forum. Its not for me. David, good luck selling your books.

[rfmcdpei]

Clem1029 wrote:

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The look into Spock's ongoing unification movement provided a nice framing for everything going on in the Empire right at this point. It was definitely interesting to see Spock and his movement get played as part of Tal'Aura's plan to bring down Donatra. Also, as positioning, bringing the Movement out of the shadows and underground into the "mainstream" (for lack of a better word) works pretty well - if nothing else, it at least sets up the foundation for why, say, the Romulan government would listing to Spock when the ST09 supernova comes.

All that said...isn't the Romulan storyline just a Nemesis reset? Don't get me wrong, the machinations that go into it are interesting to read, but the end game is what? Reconstituted Senate with all the political structure introduced in Trek Lore, reintegration of the empire (getting rid of the IRS so quickly was one of the bigger surprises in this book), anyone associated with Shinzon and events immediately following are gone...the Empire itself is right back to where it was before Shinzon. OK, sure, as part of the TP it's by definition different, but after all the time spent setting up the post-Nemesis empire(s), it just seems to wipe the slate clean and make the future narratives strictly Typhon Pact related. Not that it's a bad thing, but the payoff isn't here in this book - it's going to come whenever we revisit Romulus next.

My take?

While an extended discussion of the internal divisions of Romulan civilization, manifested by an interstate cold war, would have been fun, there probably would have been a RSE-IRS conflict sooner or later that could easily lead to a Typhon-vs-Khitomer war. I've had enough massive galactic armed conflicts for now, thanks.

The Tzenkethi engineering Romulan civilization's reunification on a pragmatic praetor not inclined towards showy attempts at galactic conquest is interesting. First, the Tzenkethi are doing it; great species/civilization! Second, the shift of Romulus towards a more peaceful but also more engaged mindset opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities for interaction. We've had an introverted but aggressive Romulan civilization since forever. What would a less aggressive and more open Romulan civilization look like?

[ProtoAvatar]

About the romulans - their home planet is due to be pulverised in a few years. They'll need all the internal stability they can get to get through that.

About Sisko (and, without exception, all the other DS9 characters presented in the Typhon Pact books that had more than 2-3 lines) - their characterisation has been unsatisfactory; too abrupt, too rushed.

A while ago, on these forums it was discussed whether the 5 year jump for the DS9 Relaunch was a good ideea or not.
For me, the books so far settled the matter:
-the characters' development suffered, it's not organic, but eclectic, the characters seem all over the place; also, they have become too spread out;
-plot threads that were anticipated/developed extensively were dropped - ex, the Ascendants; it's obvious it was decided to abandon previously prepared plot-lines;
-at this point, if the DS9 Relaunch is to continue, it will have little in common - beyond the setting - with what came before.

[rfmcdpei]

ProtoAvatar wrote:

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About the romulans - their home planet is due to be pulverised in a few years. They'll need all the internal stability they can get to get through that.

Quite. Between that and the Empire's integration with the Typhon Pact, it looks like the Romulans are going to be pushed into much greater interactions with the surrounding civilizations at a person-to-person level. This could be interesting: will viinerine be as common as raktajino?

A while ago, on these forums it was discussed whether the 5 year jump for the DS9 Relaunch was a good ideea or not.
For me, the books so far settled the matter:
-the characters' development suffered, it's not organic, but eclectic, the characters seem all over the place; also, they have become too spread out;
-plot threads that were anticipated/developed extensively were dropped - ex, the Ascendants; it's obvious it was decided to abandon previously prepared plot-lines;
-at this point, if the DS9 Relaunch is to continue, it will have little in common - beyond the setting - with what came before.

I agree in certain respects--the five-year gap is a bit much--but what led to the stagnation of the relaunch in the first place?

[flemm]

rfmcdpei wrote:

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I agree in certain respects--the five-year gap is a bit much--but what led to the stagnation of the relaunch in the first place?

A variety of circumstances. Delays and changes of author on one of the relaunch titles. Changes in the editorial staff at Pocket. The gap between the DS9-R and the other TNG-era books. The Destiny event. It was eventually decided to bring the DS9-R up to speed with the rest of the post-Destiny narrative. That is what is happening in the Typhon Pact titles, albeit in a rather uninspired manner imo.

One the one hand, yeah, some of these choices, especially the ones in RBoE, don't feel very promising as far as future DS9 stories are concerned. On the other hand, the pieces are still there on the table for a future writer to pick up and put back together. It's a bit tricky because the DS9 crew can't be easily plugged into a standard Trek narrative the way the crews of TNG, Voyager, Titan and others can. So, we'll see. The DS9-R as an on-going story of its own is dead, but I do think that at some point an author will come up with a compelling story for these characters, at which time hopefully we will get a couple of DS9 novels in relatively quick succession.

[Deranged Nasat]

I'm still waiting for both this and Seize the Fire! I'm growing impaitent. Must resist urge to read spoilers....

[starri]

David: Just for the record, even though I didn't love the book, I think you, and Christopher, and all our other wonderful authors deserve a lot of credit for being so great about answering criticism. And even when I don't love every plot twist and all of that, I certainly know how much you all love ST, and how glad I am that we've got a whole stable of authors who are willing to undertake all this as a labor of love.

I figured it was the least I could say after my Negative Nancy comments