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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old January 3 2011, 11:41 PM   #61
BrotherBenny
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
how did Tuvok fit into "Flashback" if he never appeared in VI?
He was a member of the Excelsior's crew, simple.

how did the DS9 crew fit into TOS?
Time travel. Simple.
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Old January 4 2011, 02:07 AM   #62
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Simple.
Exactly. That's what we were trying to tell Man of Steel. It's simple.
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Old January 4 2011, 02:12 AM   #63
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

The inclusion of Vaughn just makes Cast No Shadow another book with an irritating case of 'small universe syndrome'.

No offense James.
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Old January 4 2011, 04:59 AM   #64
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

^ Why? He was alive and working for Starfleet covert ops at that point in his career. What's small-universe-y about writing a story about him... working for Starfleet covert ops?

We're not getting Vaughn's entire life story, we're getting the few times he'd interacted with other characters or situations we knew about.
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Old January 4 2011, 05:45 AM   #65
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

You wouldn't want to play Six Degrees of Seperation using Vaughn. He knows everybody.
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Old January 4 2011, 05:47 AM   #66
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

Does that mean that Vaughn should be played by Kevin Bacon?
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Old January 4 2011, 05:49 AM   #67
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

I guess he's the 24th century equivalent. But even moreso as he has a Bacon number of 1 to everyone.
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Old January 4 2011, 06:16 AM   #68
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
You wouldn't want to play Six Degrees of Seperation using Vaughn. He knows everybody.
I thought that was the whole point of the character from the beginning? I was under the impression that he was supposed to be an old Starfleet vet, who knew pretty much everybody who was important in the Fleet.
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Old January 4 2011, 09:36 AM   #69
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

BillJ wrote: View Post
The inclusion of Vaughn just makes Cast No Shadow another book with an irritating case of 'small universe syndrome'.
So Vaughn should be banned from novels that explore his background? Would a ST novel about young Vaughn, who never meets anyone known to ST audiences, even make it through the approval stages?

That's why a 100-year old veteran still on active Starfleet service was added to TrekLit in the first place, IIRC...: so we can follow yet another familiar character, but original to the novels, across the decades.
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Old January 4 2011, 11:22 AM   #70
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

BillJ wrote: View Post
The inclusion of Vaughn just makes Cast No Shadow another book with an irritating case of 'small universe syndrome'.
No offense James.
Plenty taken, I'm afraid. The inclusion of the character of Vaughn is crucial to the storyline; in fact, Cast No Shadow was concieved from the start as a Vaughn & Valeris story. Perhaps you ought to read the book before you make this kind of ill-informed judgement. No offence.
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Old January 4 2011, 04:16 PM   #71
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

James Swallow wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
The inclusion of Vaughn just makes Cast No Shadow another book with an irritating case of 'small universe syndrome'.
No offense James.
Plenty taken, I'm afraid. The inclusion of the character of Vaughn is crucial to the storyline; in fact, Cast No Shadow was concieved from the start as a Vaughn & Valeris story. Perhaps you ought to read the book before you make this kind of ill-informed judgement. No offence.
Funny. For a Vaughn and Valeris story... the description doesn't seem to mention Vaughn at all. Though it does make sure to mention Spock (there is an extended blurb on Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Cast...4152910&sr=8-2). And I can't seem to locate Vaughn on the placeholder cover image, only Spock and Valeris.

I'm sorry that my definition of 'small universe syndrome' offended you in regards to you book. But it is what it is. Every reader doesn't need every corner of the Star Trek universe stitched together to get enjoyment out of it. YMMV.
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Old January 4 2011, 04:28 PM   #72
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

I can see using Vaughn to give us a different perspective on various events. I don't need him meeting up with everyone at some point. Space is big. Starfleet is big. Everyone doesn't know everyone.
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Old January 4 2011, 09:57 PM   #73
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

BillJ wrote: View Post
Though it does make sure to mention Spock (there is an extended blurb on Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Cast...4152910&sr=8-2). And I can't seem to locate Vaughn on the placeholder cover image, only Spock and Valeris.
Nothing unusual about that. Regular book buyers, casual ST fans and people looking for unusual gifts for the ST fans in their lives will recognise Spock and Valeris - even "Sex and the City" fans might recognise Kim Cattrall.

Every reader doesn't need every corner of the Star Trek universe stitched together to get enjoyment out of it. YMMV.
But the opposite of this is the situation were a procession of new, original characters make an impact, but then are never allowed to be seen again. If book-only characters can't mix with the regulars more than once, they are destined to be one-off characters, no matter how interesting they are, because it is extremely unlikely a solo book about them could get approved..

G'Dath of "A Flag Full of Stars" (he was even on the cover!), Melody Sawyer of "Strangers from the Sky", Si-s-s-s (click) of "Death's Angel", Dr Evan Wilson of "Uhura's Song"... all great, quirky, memorable characters, all unlikely to be seen again, all highly unlikely to be able to carry a whole novel as feature character, all destined to be dead-end, if compelling original characters, not even permitted to appear again if BillJ has his way.

Yay Vaughn! May he keep on appearing all over the timeline!

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
I can see using Vaughn to give us a different perspective on various events. I don't need him meeting up with everyone at some point. Space is big. Starfleet is big. Everyone doesn't know everyone.
So how can Vaughn appear again without meeting anyone we already know? Vaughn in a solo ST novel?
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Old January 4 2011, 10:22 PM   #74
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
...if compelling original characters, not even permitted to appear again if BillJ has his way.
If Vaughn appeared in a TNG book or even a Voyager book I probably wouldn't think twice. But Vaughn wrapped up in a story with Spock and Valeris eighty years past, seems forced to say the least. No thanks.

I'll never understand why people get so wrapped up in one person's displeasure. It's not a book for me and I explained my reason behind it... not every book is going to satisfy every reader. Nor does it reflect my thoughts on the majority of James work, I've found him to be a very good story-teller. My larger concern is that it seems most books these days are full of 'small universe syndrome'. If I want to keep revisiting minor characters and obscure plot points of the Trek universe, I can just go back and re-watch or re-read the relevant material. As always... your mileage may vary.
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Old January 4 2011, 10:42 PM   #75
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Re: New Catalog covers and info- cover/info not final

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
I can see using Vaughn to give us a different perspective on various events. I don't need him meeting up with everyone at some point. Space is big. Starfleet is big. Everyone doesn't know everyone.
That's true. But it's also true that Vaughn has lived a very long time. That was the whole idea behind the character in the first place -- that he's been around so long that it's plausible that he's encountered many other prominent characters at least once. If he were only 30 years old but had happened to run into all these different familiar people within the past five years, then you'd be right to call it a contrived coincidence. But he is over 100 years old, so that even if he only encountered a prominent Trek-universe character once every few years of his life, it would still cumulatively add up to a lot of crossovers.

I mean, really, it's a lot less coincidental than a lot of stuff in the shows themselves. Picard is the first captain to encounter the Romulans on their return to galactic affairs and the first human chosen as a Borg spokesman and the only human ever to be the Klingon Arbiter of Succession? It's a huge contrivance that one person would get involved with all those high-level events in just a few years. Vaughn meeting various familiar people over the course of decades is far more believable.
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