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Old December 14 2010, 03:15 AM   #16
Trekker4747
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

For what it's worth, RT's score right now is based on 43 reviews, roughly a third to a quarter of the number they'll most likely end up with when all the reviews are in based on the number of reviews older recent releases have, and there's only 3 "top critic" reviews, not enough to draw a conclusion but 2/3s of them are "Rotten", meaning most of these positive reviews are likely from JoeBlowLovesMovies.com
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Old December 14 2010, 03:41 AM   #17
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

"soulless, bad script, flashy but pointless,"
What if it really is soulless, has a bad script, and is flashy but pointless?

RAMA was predicting what THE CRITICS would say.
Yeah. But sometimes the critics say things based on reality.

His bias is in assuming that it's going to be a good movie, and that reviewers will be too blind to see it, not that he thinks it'll be bad.
So if the movie really is bad, that means the reviews will be good?
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Old December 14 2010, 04:33 AM   #18
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

If this movie is bad, Armond White's review will be good.
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Old December 14 2010, 05:14 AM   #19
Trekker4747
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Aragorn wrote: View Post
If this movie is bad, Armond White's review will be good.
Really, Armond White is the most reliable review there is. In-that the movie will be the opposite of whatever he says.
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Old December 14 2010, 02:26 PM   #20
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Who the hell cares what critics think?

And I say that as someone who has written movie reviews at different points in his career.

Heh.
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Old December 14 2010, 02:31 PM   #21
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

I use critics' responses by weight.

If a lot of them say a movie sucks...it likely sucks.

There are some movies that doesn't work for, like the fan favorite but critically panned Highlander.
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Old December 15 2010, 04:21 PM   #22
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

IndyJones wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
You haven't even watched the movie and you're so eager to criticise it?

Apparently, your opinion is already formed - by your bias, not by the movie itelf.

I think you missed his point.

His bias is in assuming that it's going to be a good movie, and that reviewers will be too blind to see it, not that he thinks it'll be bad.


Exactly, Tron circa 2010 AD in 3D...what's not to like?

Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
"soulless, bad script, flashy but pointless,"
What if it really is soulless, has a bad script, and is flashy but pointless?

RAMA was predicting what THE CRITICS would say.
Yeah. But sometimes the critics say things based on reality.

His bias is in assuming that it's going to be a good movie, and that reviewers will be too blind to see it, not that he thinks it'll be bad.
So if the movie really is bad, that means the reviews will be good?
Well it still looks cooler than anything I've ever seen.

On a serious note...I don't think Tron(1982) is a great drama, nor does it have to be, but the characters were likable and I didn't feel it was cold or soulless at all. The new movie looks populated with a megabyte-load of colorful characters (forgive the pun), and Jeff Bridges and Bruce Boxleitner should add some life. Is it going to get an Oscar for Best Picture? Well no, but it should be a pretty good adventure.

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Old December 15 2010, 04:30 PM   #23
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Nardpuncher wrote: View Post
I use critics' responses by weight.

If a lot of them say a movie sucks...it likely sucks.

There are some movies that doesn't work for, like the fan favorite but critically panned Highlander.

I look at reviews but my opinion is weighted by whether I see it or not and like it. I don't let others make the decision for me. Perfect example: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen..critics hated it, and I think its a lot of fun.

Joy wrote: View Post
Ummm... I guess you've not been to Rotten Tomatoes, 'cause Tron's already got tons of reviews. So far it's at 68% fresh, so sure, not the best, but a lot of the "negative" reviews aren't the most negative one might find.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10011582-TRON_legacy/
No I haven't even been to Rotten Tomatoes since the 2009 Star Trek movie came out. How does it have so many reviews already? I'm surprised that its generally positive.

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Old December 15 2010, 07:03 PM   #24
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

It's been screened already, and the early buzz was very positive. I expect the reviews would follow suit.

edit:
Oh nevermind, there are actual reviews up now so this remark is kind of pointless.
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Old December 15 2010, 07:34 PM   #25
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

i'm more interested what my fellow geeks/nerds think of a movie. the opinion of a 'movie critic' has no bearing on if i watch a movie or not. i'm gonna let Roger Ebert tell me a movie is rubbish? the same Roger Ebert who wrote Beyond The Valley of The Dolls? i think not.
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Old December 15 2010, 09:49 PM   #26
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Based on the word of Nerds on the Street who saw early preview screenings a few days ago, the movie actually pays homage to the original film in ways more subtle than glowing lines and blacklight - it duplicates the framing and cinematography of the computer world scenes, and it also duplicates the pacing of the original film to a surprising degree.

That's not sitting well with some folks who have seen it... on the other hand, a few of those guys are would-be film critics fresh out of a college course on "how to shoot a movie 101". I'm becoming increasingly suspicious of this sort of film criticism because I get the impression that such fans, and even pro critics, just run down a check list to determine whether or not a film is "made the right way".

I've heard some very positive reviews too, from normal joes. One recurring theme is that the movie is an experience and lead character Sam is a purposeful cipher... there to act as the POV for the audience but not biasing what they see with his own emotions or spin. A grand tour of the idea of the electronic world, hung around the basic framework of the hero's journey in a workmanlike sense. Not trying to be some form of great storytelling art, but definitely trying (and succeeding) to be /something/.

Also, part of what may leave people lost when trying to connect with the film, is that I have read it is really a lot tighter of a sequel to the original Tron than you may expect. But there's a big gulf of time separating the two, and if you haven't seen the original recently, the themes in Legacy may not fully resonate on first pass.

Most importantly, one fellow made the claim that there are indeed things to think about after you leave the theater, and that re-watching it will likely bring a little bit of a new interpretation to some stuff. On the first pass however, I fear it is likely that many or most people will just glaze over at the neon action battles and not even try to pay attention to any subtleties that may be hidden away in the story.

I think part of the problem with modern film criticism is that there's a bit of an open faced lie in the idea that the critic should be able to critique "any" film fairly because he is An Expert. That's just plain unrealistic, and much criticism is falling apart in the last decade or so as we see a sharp rise in the number of sci-fi and fantasy films, and films for a fresh generation, be they drama, action, or comedies.

Generally, when most critics agree a film is great, or terrible, I tend to think it's really a sign that the film isn't challenging anything in any direction. It's ether solidly and meticulously "pleasant" to the eyes and ears of what critics expect to represent "correct" filmmaking, or it's solidly impenetrable to most critics - whether it's "good or bad". In other words, anymore, you can't trust critics as a group to tell you whether a film is actually exceptional or just impressive in following all the rules to make a critic happy that he knows those rules and can apply his refined judgement. And you can't trust them to determine whether a film is genuinely awful and utterly uninteresting in any way, or whether they just don't get it.

Edit: as long as I'm yakking so much, I forgot to add the thought... naturally, due to law of averages, at least a slight majority of most stuff coming out is going to be genuinely bland and uninteresting, and just poorly made. This causes negative critical consensus to appear reliable because it still gets it "right" so much of the time. But I do believe we're seeing more and more false positives on the critical radar. Was chatting about this topic with a friend yesterday; so many films of the last decade have been savaged by critics with the "Star Wars" response only to go on and become generally approved of by fans of their genre and even become long-term successes on DVD. We joked anymore that if most of the critics pan a major new genre film, that probably means it's really good - if anything, a lot of these guys just seem tired of the fact that there's all these sorts of films showing up lately and you can almost hear them thinking "this is what my generation thought was lowbrow and the stuff of nerdishness. Can't it just go away?"

Last edited by Kaijima; December 15 2010 at 10:00 PM.
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Old December 15 2010, 10:30 PM   #27
Owain Taggart
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Kaijima wrote: View Post
Also, part of what may leave people lost when trying to connect with the film, is that I have read it is really a lot tighter of a sequel to the original Tron than you may expect. But there's a big gulf of time separating the two, and if you haven't seen the original recently, the themes in Legacy may not fully resonate on first pass.
This is interesting to hear, considering Disney has an embargo on the original as discussed in the other thread. If people haven't seen the original before seeing the sequel and it isn't currently for sale, then it might have a reverse effect of what they intended as it only seems to be holding them back. It seems to be poor planning on their part, considering the original movie was released so long ago. You just can't expect people to remember what happened in it.


Edit: as long as I'm yakking so much, I forgot to add the thought... naturally, due to law of averages, at least a slight majority of most stuff coming out is going to be genuinely bland and uninteresting, and just poorly made. This causes negative critical consensus to appear reliable because it still gets it "right" so much of the time. But I do believe we're seeing more and more false positives on the critical radar. Was chatting about this topic with a friend yesterday; so many films of the last decade have been savaged by critics with the "Star Wars" response only to go on and become generally approved of by fans of their genre and even become long-term successes on DVD. We joked anymore that if most of the critics pan a major new genre film, that probably means it's really good - if anything, a lot of these guys just seem tired of the fact that there's all these sorts of films showing up lately and you can almost hear them thinking "this is what my generation thought was lowbrow and the stuff of nerdishness. Can't it just go away?"
I agree. Personally, myself, I find ratings so subjective to the point that they really don't mean much anymore. It's more like a popularity contest to get a movie noticed. I've often seen critically acclaimed movies and thought nothing much of them, and if I browse my guide, I've often seen movies rated at 1 or 2 stars be more entertaining than 4 stars, and often the case is, I'll feel that a movie got passed by unnoticed but deserved much more than it got. So yeah ratings aren't all that.
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Old December 15 2010, 10:59 PM   #28
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Owain Taggart wrote: View Post
I agree. Personally, myself, I find ratings so subjective to the point that they really don't mean much anymore. It's more like a popularity contest to get a movie noticed. I've often seen critically acclaimed movies and thought nothing much of them, and if I browse my guide, I've often seen movies rated at 1 or 2 stars be more entertaining than 4 stars, and often the case is, I'll feel that a movie got passed by unnoticed but deserved much more than it got. So yeah ratings aren't all that.
Once I read the advice to film critics that mediocre criticism is merely writing about why a movie is and is not "made correctly", as if this is supposed to justify why you didn't like it. But that is a crutch; we all like what we like for more than just its mechanical components. Critics must remember that they're human, too. More useful to the reader is to describe your experience of watching the film, and if it meant anything to you.

One particularly nasty review of Tron Legacy I read couldn't stop going on about how the dialog was terrible and cringeworthy in almost every line. But what does that really mean? Just saying "the dialog is terrible" doesn't actually communicate anything useful by itself, because it is subjective. What sounds natural or believable to one person may sound strange and nonsensical to another depending on their expectations and even life experiences.
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Old December 16 2010, 12:37 AM   #29
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Speaking as someone who reviews TV and movies for kicks and giggles, I can honestly say that my own ratings are meant to be fun. Also, I make no bones about my bias in favor of shows that mean something -- either in terms of character or theme -- beyond the confines of the story (in other words, does the film have meaning beyond what its characters want). I also assume that readers take my reviews for what they are: just a single point of view and opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think we quite naturally seek out the opinions of others -- it's why whenever you go to the movies, the first thing after the credits roll is to turn to your mates and ask what they thought of it, and to share your thoughts. It's a mistake to make critics out to be some sort of monolithic force -- they're individuals watching movies the same as everyone else. The only difference is that they bother to write up and "publish" their opinions (which makes the reviews subject to evaluation the same as the movies that are being evaluated).

Kinda like what we all do on message boards.
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Old December 16 2010, 01:01 AM   #30
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Re: Predicting the Tron critical reception

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
The only difference is that they bother to write up and "publish" their opinions (which makes the reviews subject to evaluation the same as the movies that are being evaluated).

Kinda like what we all do on message boards.
Right, but the difference is that they're paid for it and they often go along with the popular opinion and often trash it because it's popular to be doing for particular movies. These days, the media is also owned by companies that might have advantages in how movies are reviewed, like say, Warner Brothers and TIME, or Disney and ABC and any publications under that umbrella giving their movies acclaim, making people want to see them. So, likely opinion is swayed quite a bit, and so then opinion is not so much an honest opinion anymore but more of a shill piece.
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