RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,887
Posts: 5,386,616
Members: 24,715
Currently online: 411
Newest member: Noga74

TrekToday headlines

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16

Eve Engaged
By: T'Bonz on Aug 15

Shatner’s Get A Life DVD Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14

TV Alert: Takei Oprah Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Gaming

Gaming Non-Star Trek Gaming

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 18 2014, 11:35 PM   #2356
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Oh it's *enormously* contrived, but that's besides the point in this instance. The developers did play fair by establishing up front that there's no way even a united galaxy could take on the entire reaper fleet and win. Taking down one or two by throwing whole fleets at them sure, but they have more Reapers than you'll ever have fleets. It's a war of attrition that simply cannot be won.
Yet the only way to beat them is with the God gun that it knows about....much is made of this cycle being different, and Humanity in particular being the glue that holds it all together, yet effectively we just pick up the ball that the previous cycle had dropped and get it over the line.
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 12:28 AM   #2357
Skywalker
Admiral
 
Skywalker's Avatar
 
Re: Mass Effect 3

Angel4576 wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Oh it's *enormously* contrived, but that's besides the point in this instance. The developers did play fair by establishing up front that there's no way even a united galaxy could take on the entire reaper fleet and win. Taking down one or two by throwing whole fleets at them sure, but they have more Reapers than you'll ever have fleets. It's a war of attrition that simply cannot be won.
Yet the only way to beat them is with the God gun that it knows about....much is made of this cycle being different, and Humanity in particular being the glue that holds it all together, yet effectively we just pick up the ball that the previous cycle had dropped and get it over the line.
I actually kind of liked that. It didn't take just the races of the present cycle to defeat the Reapers, but the combined efforts of all those who came before (or at least those who contributed to the Crucible, that is). Those species who fell to the Reapers in the past were at least able to gain some measure of revenge.
Skywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 01:31 AM   #2358
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

Skywalker wrote: View Post
I actually kind of liked that. It didn't take just the races of the present cycle to defeat the Reapers, but the combined efforts of all those who came before (or at least those who contributed to the Crucible, that is). Those species who fell to the Reapers in the past were at least able to gain some measure of revenge.
The main problem I have with it is that it relies of the Reapers being completely naive at best, monumentally stupid at worst.

The Crucible plans have spanned countless cycles, the Reapers know this. From the pattern of progression they can see that each cycle gets incrementally closer, hence the previous cycle actually built the thing, they just ran out of time to deploy it. Despite having access to the plans in at least the previous cycle the Reapers make no attempt to sabotage them for the following cycle, they just stop at destroying the Prothean version of the Crucible, despite all evidence suggesting that the following cycle would, somehow, get the plans. They also develop no countermeasures. You could argue that this is supreme arrogance on the part of the Reapers in that they do not expect anyone to actually be in a position to use it, but the fact that the Protheans actually built it should have been warning enough that a subsequent cycle might take things one step further and not only build it, but deploy it.

Instead, they do nothing.

In certain ways Refuse is the best ending. You sacrifice the "win on the Catalyst's terms" in this cycle for a clean win in the next. The following cycle wins without having to fight the Reapers.
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 03:15 AM   #2359
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Mass Effect 3

^None of which alters the fact that they remained true to the premise that the Reapers could not be out-fought. That the solution they came up with was bonkers is besides the point.

As I said, there's a lot I don't like about the endings--hell, just about everything after the second Kai Leng fight--but the consequences of rejecting the catalyst's options isn't one of them.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 05:14 AM   #2360
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
^None of which alters the fact that they remained true to the premise that the Reapers could not be out-fought. That the solution they came up with was bonkers is besides the point.

As I said, there's a lot I don't like about the endings--hell, just about everything after the second Kai Leng fight--but the consequences of rejecting the catalyst's options isn't one of them.
Besides it's not like some super weapon being their only hope came out of nowhere Shepard mentioned going to look for one at the end of Mass Effect and Lair of the Shadow Broker in Mass Effect 2 hinted at such a weapon existing with Liara hinting that the previous Broker was looking into the Prothens to see if they left anything else that could be used against the Reapers.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 08:23 PM   #2361
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

Winning via super weapon is irrelevant. That's not the problem. The problem is that it's a super weapon that the enemy knows all about, but for no fathomable reason does anything to neutralise.

You can ONLY win on the Catalyst's terms. It lets you win. Refuse eventually yields a win, but it's technical. The next cycle wins, you lose.

To labour the point, it's BS that Shepard simply buys into everything that Starjar tells her/him. Starjar couldn't possibly be telling porkies, it's not like you've got it by the balls or anything. Not like you've just parked a Galactic Reaper-killer on its doorstep. Why would it possibly lie to you......

Like I said, I can live with high EMS Destroy, just. It just grates that you go there knowing that it's based on the Bratalyst being incredibly stupid in even telling you about that option. A contrived technical win, handed to you via timely logic-fail on Space Casper's part. An intelligence that's smart enough to take down the Leviathans and every sentient race since, just happens to brain-fart at the pivotal moment in the game. Yeah.....right.
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 08:52 PM   #2362
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Mass Effect 3

Angel4576 wrote: View Post
Winning via super weapon is irrelevant. That's not the problem. The problem is that it's a super weapon that the enemy knows all about, but for no fathomable reason does anything to neutralise.
They did do something about when they keeping sitting on the final component needed to make it work for centuries every time they invade the galaxy.

Remember with out the Catalyst aka the Citadel the Crucible is useless, and the standard Reaper invasion starts by taking the Citadel in a massive surprise attack while also destroying the galactic government followed by hunting down and exterminating whats left of the galaxy's civilization.

The only reason they didn't do that until later in Mass Effect 3 was that the Citadel relay was taken out of play by the Protheans, and then later Shepard killing Sovereign.

So they really don't have to sabotage the plans since their usual invasion plan makes finishing the device impossible.

And its not like they wouldn't notice that the plans call of the use of something that has the same name as the AI controlling them.

Besides an "unconventional refuse option" sounds like wishful thinking about a magical deus ex machina that can be pulled out at the 11th hour so as to get by fact the the Reapers can't be beaten without some ultimate weapon one of the previous cycles may have come up with that the games previously hinted at.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 19 2014, 10:26 PM   #2363
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
They did do something about when they keeping sitting on the final component needed to make it work for centuries every time they invade the galaxy.

Remember with out the Catalyst aka the Citadel the Crucible is useless, and the standard Reaper invasion starts by taking the Citadel in a massive surprise attack while also destroying the galactic government followed by hunting down and exterminating whats left of the galaxy's civilization.

The only reason they didn't do that until later in Mass Effect 3 was that the Citadel relay was taken out of play by the Protheans, and then later Shepard killing Sovereign.

So they really don't have to sabotage the plans since their usual invasion plan makes finishing the device impossible.

And its not like they wouldn't notice that the plans call of the use of something that has the same name as the AI controlling them.

Besides an "unconventional refuse option" sounds like wishful thinking about a magical deus ex machina that can be pulled out at the 11th hour so as to get by fact the the Reapers can't be beaten without some ultimate weapon one of the previous cycles may have come up with that the games previously hinted at.
Basic risk management. They used their standard invasion MO in the previous cycle and the result was that the Protheans managed to build the device and nearly deploy it. At that point why would you possibly leave to chance the possibility of the next race taking things further and deploying it? The Reapers effectively ended up sitting on the final component in this cycle but that didn't prevent the alliance from building the Crucible, deploying it, and actually delivering it. Something that would have been rendered meaningless had they either sabotaged the plans or developed countermeasures. Again, you can claim arrogance on the part of the Reapers, but considering the incremental positive progression of the plans through the cycles it was inevitable that eventually someone would build it and use it. That goes beyond arrogance and strays into stupid.

Again, comes back to risk management - given that the last cycle were close to deploying the weapon, was it safer for them to do nothing on the assumption that their plan would still work, or would you put mitigating plans in place to reduce the risk? Mitigating plans by the way which would likely have required little effort on their part. They'd just wiped out galactic civilisation, were they really THAT desperate to get back to dark space for their millennia-long nap?

Re unconventional refuse, they needed the Catalyst because the Catalyst was part of the Citadel. They needed the Citadel because it was a huge source of power. Find another source of power. Or find a way of rendering the Catalyst irrelevant in being able to harness the Citadel's power. You found the Leviathans FFS, they've been around even longer than the Catalyst and the Reapers. They're the original apex race and they claim to be technologically superior to the Reapers, yet they have nothing to contribute to this end?

The whole ending shambles is incredibly illogical. Common sense seems to go out of the window on all sides in a last ditch battle of the dumbest.
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20 2014, 03:02 AM   #2364
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Mass Effect 3

The Citadel wasn't a source of power, it was a mechanism. The Crucible was the power source; as was explicitly stated.

Regarding the Catalyst: that was just a code name given to the final component by the Protheans (translated into English, obviously), the AI probably only knew of the name because it learned it via TIM. It pretty clear it doesn't have a name for itself because it doesn't need one, it just need it's stated purpose: "I bring order to chaos."

As for it knowing of the Crucible; it explicitly says that it first learned of the concept several cycles ago and believed it had been eradicated. It even admitted it underestimated the organics. Probably one of the main reasons it was unaware that the Protheans had it was that their methods of data storage and retrieval was uniquely tied to their physiology and not something that could be read or understood by a machine.

Indeed this is one of the main plot point in ME1. The whole reason Sovereign was using Saren they way it did was because it needed an organic interface. Just like they needed Shiala to acquire the cipher from the Thorian and Benezia to get the relay co-ordinates from the rachni.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 10:12 AM   #2365
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

I stand corrected on the 'power/mechanism' point, it's been a while since I've played the game now.

I'd still use the same argument though - the Citadel was the means by which to amplify the Crucible's already massive power - find another method for amplification. Or find a way to circumvent the Catalyst's role in the use of the Citadel.

The Catalyt's belief that the plan had been eradicated was conveniently naive - presumably it thought that the plans had been eradicated in previous cycles too. Certainly alarm bells should have rung when it became clear to the vanguard that they were losing the ability to take the Citadel at the beginning of the next cycle. Purely from a logical POV, if you know that there were plans out there that could build a weapon to stop you in your tracks the moment you set foot in the galaxy, they just required the use of the Citadel, which you no longer have access to, then your first step upon entering the galaxy would surely have been to take the Citadel as quickly as possible. Especially considering that the alliance had already proven capable of defending it to a limited degree.

Re the Protheans - the Reapers became aware of the device when certain factions amongst the Protheans were indoctrinated. At this point it would have become clear that any belief that the plans had previously been eradicated were wrong, therefore they were also prone to being wrong in any attempt to eradicate them ahead of future cycles. Equally, when Saren discovers that some Protheans survived on Ilos after the previous cycle, Protheans who were knowledgable enough to recognise the Citadel trap, surely there's at least a consideration here of "what else might they have done before they died out?" - hidden plans about the death machine that requires use of the Citadel, which they no longer have access to? For all intents and purposes, had the plans been discovered earlier then they could literally have built the Crucible right next to the Citadel and waited for the Reapers to enter the galaxy - granted, they wouldn't know that they'd be confronted by the Catalyst when they tried, but realistically, how would that have gone anyway? It apparently puts its hands in the air when Shepard confronts it at the end of ME3 anyway, even when it could seemingly win easily. Just by letting Shepard die. The reason for the Catalyst coming to the conclusion that its "solution" no longer worked was only a natural extension of what the previous cycles had been building towards. Even then though, I'm not sure how it comes to the conclusion that it won't work anymore - finish this cycle, sabotage the plans, re-establish the link between the Citadel and dark space, then nap time.
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 06:33 PM   #2366
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Mass Effect 3

Another way? You mean there's *another* linked network of devices capable of channelling massive amounts of dark energy, spread throughout the galaxy and all controlled from a central hub? Well why did you say so!?

As for what the Catalyst did and didn't know; it's not omnipotent. Never claimed to be. If they had reason the believe the plans were still out there, then they would have made sure that they were eradicated before they returned to dark space. The fact that they didn't means they had no reason to have such a belief. QED.

They also didn't know that Javik survived. That the facility on Ilos managed to wait out the Prothean extinction and board the Citadel. Or that the Leviathan were still out there in hiding. Honestly, those seem to be greater oversights then the existence of some encrypted data file buried in a massive archive that's damn near impossible for non-Protheans to even comprehend, much less decipher.

That aside, being aware the organics are building something they think will wipe out the Reapers isn't the same as actually knowing how it works, or even caring. Indeed, when you speak to the Catalyst, it's implicit that it's just then analysing it's capabilities. Something it couldn't do until after it had engaged with the Citadel.

Remember that the Catalyst is an AI. It thinks like a machine. After a billion or more years, tens of thousands of cycles, it's had a 100% success rate in it's harvests. It not capable of being paranoid about what else *might* be out there the threaten it because so far nothing has. It can only conceive of such possibilities in terms of infinitesimally small statistical provabilities. In short: "no data available".
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21 2014, 06:50 PM   #2367
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Another way? You mean there's *another* linked network of devices capable of channelling massive amounts of dark energy, spread throughout the galaxy and all controlled from a central hub? Well why did you say so!?

As for what the Catalyst did and didn't know; it's not omnipotent. Never claimed to be. If they had reason the believe the plans were still out there, then they would have made sure that they were eradicated before they returned to dark space. The fact that they didn't means they had no reason to have such a belief. QED.

They also didn't know that Javik survived. That the facility on Ilos managed to wait out the Prothean extinction and board the Citadel. Or that the Leviathan were still out there in hiding. Honestly, those seem to be greater oversights then the existence of some encrypted data file buried in a massive archive that's damn near impossible for non-Protheans to even comprehend, much less decipher.

That aside, being aware the organics are building something they think will wipe out the Reapers isn't the same as actually knowing how it works, or even caring. Indeed, when you speak to the Catalyst, it's implicit that it's just then analysing it's capabilities. Something it couldn't do until after it had engaged with the Citadel.

Remember that the Catalyst is an AI. It thinks like a machine. After a billion or more years, tens of thousands of cycles, it's had a 100% success rate in it's harvests. It not capable of being paranoid about what else *might* be out there the threaten it because so far nothing has. It can only conceive of such possibilities in terms of infinitesimally small statistical provabilities. In short: "no data available".
Which probably why they seemed so surprise when Shepard wrecked most of their plans.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 12:22 PM   #2368
Angel4576
Rear Admiral
 
Angel4576's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Another way? You mean there's *another* linked network of devices capable of channelling massive amounts of dark energy, spread throughout the galaxy and all controlled from a central hub? Well why did you say so!?
There's no reason you can't use the existing relay network. It's a network, network's can be hacked. If only you'd managed to recruit a race of AIs who knew their way around networks like the back of their hand....Clearly the relay network's plot armour was as invincible as Kai Leng's earlier in the game!


As for what the Catalyst did and didn't know; it's not omnipotent. Never claimed to be. If they had reason the believe the plans were still out there, then they would have made sure that they were eradicated before they returned to dark space. The fact that they didn't means they had no reason to have such a belief. QED.
And again you go back to basic risk management - the plans existed for 'several' cycles - presumably at the end of each cycle the Reapers/Catalyst would have thought them eradicated, otherwise you're leaving a loaded gun for someone to pick up in the next cycle. The fact that the plans repeatedly permeated across cycles should in itself prompt countermeasures. This is a race that was intelligent enough to create the Citadel trap - but one that isn't smart enough to realize that you can't possibly completely guarantee that something like these plans can be eradicated. The only action completely within their own control was to try and nerf the plans for following cycles.

They also didn't know that Javik survived. That the facility on Ilos managed to wait out the Prothean extinction and board the Citadel. Or that the Leviathan were still out there in hiding. Honestly, those seem to be greater oversights then the existence of some encrypted data file buried in a massive archive that's damn near impossible for non-Protheans to even comprehend, much less decipher.
This doesn't really matter - by the time of the invasion the Reapers are well aware that the Citadel trap has failed, and thanks to Saren/Sovereign, they know exactly why. This is the first time in countless cycles that the Citadel trap has failed. From the get-go it puts them at less of an advantage than they've enjoyed in previous cycles. For a race supposedly as intelligent as the Reapers you'd think that this might prompt some sort of urgency. They've lost direct access to the Citadel. The very thing that they know is crucial in the designs of the weapon aimed to be used against them. What exactly happens if the Crucible arrives at the Citadel and there's no Reaper fleet to stop them? The Reapers are clearly concerned enough at the end of the game when TIM tells them that the Crucible is coming, enough to seize the Citadel and defend it with the vast majority of their fleet. Why bother doing that if the Catalyst can so easily repel any attempts to use the Citadel to activate the weapon? On the other hand, if they're concerned that the Catalyst might not be able to repel such an attempt then why would they not take the Citadel straight away once the invasion is under way?

That aside, being aware the organics are building something they think will wipe out the Reapers isn't the same as actually knowing how it works, or even caring. Indeed, when you speak to the Catalyst, it's implicit that it's just then analysing it's capabilities. Something it couldn't do until after it had engaged with the Citadel.
Which is utterly ridiculous. Not your point, but the fact that this IS true. But again, this is just reflective of convenient naivety on the Catalyst/Reaper's part. They had access to the plans in at least the previous cycle, and most likely cycles before that. The last cycle, at least, was via indoctrinated agents - why wouldn't one of the first questions upon indoctrination be "Explain to us in detail exactly what this device is and how it works"? even that aside, the Reapers aren't intelligent enough to figure out a way of building a scale version and testing its capabilities? The whole notion of the plans seemingly being beyond either the Reapers' ability to understand, or beyond their will to care, is equally ludicrous.

Remember that the Catalyst is an AI. It thinks like a machine. After a billion or more years, tens of thousands of cycles, it's had a 100% success rate in it's harvests. It not capable of being paranoid about what else *might* be out there the threaten it because so far nothing has. It can only conceive of such possibilities in terms of infinitesimally small statistical provabilities. In short: "no data available".
Performance in previous harvests is largely irrelevant. It will simply follow a routine. or at least it would, until it encounters a change within the parameters of that routine. The Crucible plans (or whatever they're called in the previous cycles) are a new element. At first, they probably didn't determine that they were a threat. As they re-appeared across cycles, then that threat should escalate. Despite their seemingly best efforts, the plans DO permeate across cycles - the probability of the plans re-appearing in THIS cycle are likely far from infinitesimal. You're effectively suggesting that the most advanced race of artificial intelligence ever created, in the history of the galaxy, cannot undertake basic risk analysis, something that countless software packages can do today?

Action wouldn't solely be determined by probability/likelihood, but also impact - in this event, whilst the likelihood may appear to be low, the impact is significantly high. A lack of mitigating measures against a high-impact risk, low likelihood or not, is just asking for it, and an incredibly basic fail, for an intelligence that is supposedly superior. At this rate Shepard might as well have turned up on the Citadel armed with a Macbook and an Excel spreadsheet full of Macro commands! Makes about as much sense!
__________________
I am a Ranger. We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One.
Angel4576 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 04:58 PM   #2369
ATimson
Rear Admiral
 
ATimson's Avatar
 
Location: Andrew Timson
Re: Mass Effect 3

Angel4576 wrote: View Post
There's no reason you can't use the existing relay network. It's a network, network's can be hacked. If only you'd managed to recruit a race of AIs who knew their way around networks like the back of their hand....Clearly the relay network's plot armour was as invincible as Kai Leng's earlier in the game!
The relay network isn't a network as in a computer network; it's a network in the base definition, "a system of lines, wires, etc., that are connected to each other".
__________________
Andrew Timson
===============
"Niceness is the greatest human flaw, except for all the others." - Brendan Moody

"...don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido
ATimson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2014, 09:50 PM   #2370
Reverend
Rear Admiral
 
Reverend's Avatar
 
Location: UK
Re: Mass Effect 3

^Exactly. It's made more clear in the codex that the relays are just that; paired 1:1 relays. The Citadel is by design the only device that can control them all.


As for the previous cycles, the truth is, we don't know exactly what complications the Reapers may or may not have encountered. All we have to go on is Vigil's account of how the Protheans were caught unawares and the assumption that all previous cycles ended more or less the same way. But that's all it is, an assumption. Despite Vendetta's assertion that the cycles followed the same patterns of revolution and dissolution, those patterns could have been expressed in almost countless fashions.

Just comparing the "Citadel Council" civilization with what little we know of the Prothean Empire it's apparent that not everything goes "exactly" as the pattern dictates.

I was actually watching Sagan's classic Cosmos series the other day and the episode in which he talks about the Heike Crabs and it occurred to me that a similar process of unintentional artificial selection could have taken place with the Catalyst and galactic civilization. Eventually, totally without intending to do, the Reaper harvests produced civilizations adapted to overcome the harvests. This is as good an analogy as any I can think of to account for how the crucible could have passed almost blindly from one civilization to the next. There way also be shades of chaos theory in there too, but it'd take someone much more well versed than I to expound on the subject.

There's also the fact that ideas are notoriously difficult to destroy. Admittedly in the real world we've never been able to test this principle on such a scale and across gulfs of extinction, but the principle is basically sound. The closest we've come is the dark ages, where despite centuries of neglect, obscurity and the best efforts of book burners and witch hunters, valid scientific knowledge from antiquity has managed to survive into the present day. Likewise there's a plethora of very well known and astonishingly wide spread cultural stories who's true origins are so old that it's damn near impossible to even know from whence they came, much less whether they have any basis in fact.
Reverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
auto dialogue, bioware, mass effect, mass effect 2, mass effect 3

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.