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Old December 3 2013, 05:56 AM   #2251
Reverend
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Re: Mass Effect 3

^Going by that, I think if you added up the total playtimes of the respective missions, (YMMV of course) I reckon I wasn't far wrong with the 60/40 split in favour of Cerberus.

Also interesting that out of the four DLCs (not counting the Extended Cut), only one actually had you dealing with the Reapers at all!
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Old December 3 2013, 06:25 AM   #2252
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Also interesting that out of the four DLCs (not counting the Extended Cut), only one actually had you dealing with the Reapers at all!
Four DLCs? I don't think "From Ashes" counts, since it came in the box.

Anyways, from the player's POV, the Reapers had already been done & dusted when they got to the post-release DLC. Telling unrelated stories was the smarter approach there - give players a new reason to return, instead of offering them more of the same.
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Old December 3 2013, 09:52 AM   #2253
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Re: Mass Effect 3

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
The initial mistake was EA's in giving them such a limited development window. They treated ME3 like it was another generic sci-fi action game when it was an expansive RPG just like its predecessors. Games with that much content to them take a lot more time than typical shooter games do. They made the same mistake with Dragon Age II; fortunately it seems they've wizened up a bit by giving Dragon Age: Inquisition a lot more room to breathe.
This is my take on it too. EA isn't to blame for ME3's craptastic ending, nor any of the other dumb creative decisions in the games, but they are to blame for putting Mass Effect on a 2-year development cycle. That might be enough time to churn out a shooter with an 8-hour campaign that nobody actually plays, but for games with the scope and detail of Mass Effect that isn't enough time.

I'm hopeful for the next ME game because it seems like they've been given extra time to work it out, which seems to have resulted in the return of exploration and vehicles (if these rumours are true). Besides, this new game will be a fresh start in terms of story and wont have to write its way out of a corner in the same way ME3 did.
Amen to that.

Personally, my dream scenario would be for Bioware to pull a Bungie.

Short of that, EA's new policy of actually trying to let them make good video games might be enough for me to give a shit about Dragon Age and Mass Effect again.
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Old December 3 2013, 04:21 PM   #2254
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Re: Mass Effect 3

ATimson wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Also interesting that out of the four DLCs (not counting the Extended Cut), only one actually had you dealing with the Reapers at all!
Four DLCs? I don't think "From Ashes" counts, since it came in the box.
Well, that's a whole rant in and of itself!

My irritation over it was mostly from a moral standpoint though, since it didn't directly affect me. I bought the collector's edition which came with it anyway.

Now, before anyone says "sucker!" I had always planned on getting it since the first two I got on steam--ME1 at a deep discount--so I wanted at least one boxed copy.

Anyways, from the player's POV, the Reapers had already been done & dusted when they got to the post-release DLC. Telling unrelated stories was the smarter approach there - give players a new reason to return, instead of offering them more of the same.
I suppose. And taken individually it does make sense; Omega was always going to be a Cerberus mission (and to be fair they did add a new/old reaper enemy), Citadel was a fun romp and Leviathan of course did deal directly with their origins. I guess
since like the balance in the main game was already tipped away from the reapers, the DLC just felt like it compounded the issue.

I guess I'm also a little annoyed that beyond the initial attacks on Earth and Palavan, you never really got to see what was actually going on out there, you only hear about it second hand. Even the fall of Thessia felt somewhat underplayed. A mission where you have to liberate civilians from a processor ship would have been great. Or boarding a live reaper to take it down from the inside! So many side missions that could have involved *not* fighting Cerberus.

Speaking of Omega, that was a *huge* missed opportunity! First off, a new hub would have been a great addition. I mean they already had the Afterlife map, all they had to do was re-dress and populate it. Having Aria re-appear on the Citadel almost immediately just felt so out of place! You'd think they'd handle it the same way they did with Liara in ME2. Secondly, it would have been fantastic if Nyreen was recruitable. Her death made no sense save to motivate Aria to go berserk and even that could easily have been done without killing her off.

How hard would it have been to record a few dozen more lines for Nyreen on the Normandy, a handful of in-mission reactions and a single exchange in London? While it would have been nice for her to interact with the others, it's not like it would have been a big deal if the budget didn't allow it. I don't think Zaeed or Kasumi ever interacted directly with anyone and I think Allers only ever speaks to Shepard or Traynor (more evidence she was an afterthought btw!)

It'd make sense to since once you take back Omega, you have to settle who gets to run things. The obvious way to do it is have it come down to a choice between installing Aria or Nyreen. Maybe full paragons & renegade being able to convince Aria to leave peacefully (thus becoming a war asset) if you pick Nyreen to stay, while paragades/renegons forced to gun Aria down. The recruitment offer for Nyreen being available regardless of course.

I mean the line-up felt so limited after ME2 that it would have been nice to have just one extra. Indeed, if like me you didn't have Kaiden and were playing as a Soldier class, your only biotics were Liara & Javvik so Nyreen as a Sentinel would have filled the gap very well.

Recruiting Aria might have been fun too, but frankly from a character standpoint it makes little sense. Aria doesn't make a habit out of taking orders. Would have been fun to see her reunited with Wrex at some point though!

P.S. Anyone else think Sumalee Montano (Nyreen) should be the female VO for "not-Shepard" in ME4?

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Old December 3 2013, 04:41 PM   #2255
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Reverend wrote: View Post
Secondly, it would have been fantastic if Nyreen was recruitable. Her death made no sense save to motivate Aria to go berserk and even that could easily have been done without killing her off.

How hard would it have been to record a few dozen more lines for Nyreen on the Normandy, a handful of in-mission reactions and a single exchange in London? While it would have been nice for her to interact with the others, it's not like it would have been a big deal if the budget didn't allow it. I don't think Zaeed or Kasumi ever interacted directly with anyone and I think Allers only ever speaks to Shepard or Traynor (more evidence she was an afterthought btw!)
The problem there isn't the recording, it's integrating her into the rest of the content. For Mass Effect 2, Bioware had to include most of Zaeed and Kasumi's content on the retail disc, since all of their assets need to be baked into the various levels. I doubt Mass Effect 3 changed the engine drastically enough for that to be back on the table.
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Old December 3 2013, 07:45 PM   #2256
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Really? You'd think the seemingly plug and play nature of the way characters behave within missions it'd be a matter of a simple patch, not a total recompile.
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Old December 3 2013, 07:57 PM   #2257
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Re: Mass Effect 3

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Really? You'd think the seemingly plug and play nature of the way characters behave within missions it'd be a matter of a simple patch, not a total recompile.
For a homegrown engine, perhaps. But apparently the modern Unreal Engine (2.5/3) does a lot of precompiling/optimization of assets, and doesn't allow for that kind of runtime swap. It's the same reason why the Bioshock 2 devs couldn't fix the silent vending machines via patch - they'd need to include recompiled versions of all of the levels in the patch.
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Old December 3 2013, 09:01 PM   #2258
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Well that's sounds like a poor engine design. Or rather a poor engine choice for this type of game. Hopefully Frostbite will turn out to be more flexible.

Again though, this shows that there was some pretty poor planning going into ME3. It's clear that they fully intended to do an Omega DLC at some point and yet they apparently made next to no provisions for it in the main game.
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Old December 4 2013, 02:59 AM   #2259
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I liked Mass Effect 3...
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Old December 4 2013, 03:47 AM   #2260
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I loved Mass Effect 3. Sure there's quibbles but overall I adore it. Endings? Meh, there's sooo much good stuff before there that I'm happy. And Citadel is just the most awesome damn thing in the universe.

I for one am excited for ME4!
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Old December 4 2013, 05:14 AM   #2261
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Re: Mass Effect 3

What good things can I say about Mass Effect 3... Hmm...

Well, the destruction of player agency in the beginning section was on a far smaller scale than in the beginning section of Mass Effect 2.



And that's about it. At least in terms of specific points. I think 3 is probably still a better game than Mass Effect 2, asides from the music. But the first game is by far my favorite, and I'm still waiting for a sale on it (or on the entire Trilogy set) for PS3 so I can replay for trophies.
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Old December 4 2013, 05:36 AM   #2262
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Oh I can say plenty of good things about ME3. It's precisely because it's so good overall that the bad stuff sticks out as much. At the time it was vexing, these days it's mostly just baffling.

As I said what must be 18 months and 120 odd pages ago: if it was a bad game, nobody would care if the endings sucked.
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Old December 4 2013, 02:15 PM   #2263
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I liked Mass Effect 3, I enjoy playing it, and no other game (or any other form of art) had the same sort of emotional effect on me as the time I shot Mordin.

But the game still has some pretty bad design decisions. The side missions sucked. The reduced dialogue options sucked. Overriding player choices from the previous games (Rachni Queen, Udina on Council, etc) with the wave of a hand sucked. The ending was atrocious. The Omega DLC was completely pointless, and far too expensive.

It wasn't a bad game, it was pretty good overall, but at the same time it wasn't the send-off that the trilogy deserved.
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Old December 4 2013, 08:38 PM   #2264
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I enjoyed them for what they had and what they where. Flaws aside, I jumped in and enjoyed every single bit of it, the ending of ME3 wasn't what I was expecting, but I wasn't too disappointed because the over all experience was so darn great.

I guess everyone complaining about the ending so much, when I got there I didn't have my hype to high so I was perhaps a little disarmed, and lucky because I got the extensive ending first... I do admit if I had the original ending I might have had more question marks over my head. Not the best ending ... clearly, but I can't hate the game because the journey was great.

And the universe they built was great, I can't wait to see more of that universe.
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Old December 5 2013, 04:48 PM   #2265
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Re: Mass Effect 3

This thread actually inspired me to load up the game again and I'm surprised at how active multiplayer still is (on PC at least.) I expected it to be a bit of a ghost town by now.

A real testament to the combat system which IMO was as much of an improvement over ME2 as that was over ME1. The difference being that ME2 was a total overhaul while ME3 refined it to near perfection. I say "near" because the whole spacebar thing. I understand controls have to require less buttons on consoles, but there's just no excuse for it on PC!

Also reminded at how much the powersets were improved. A sort of reversion to ME1's more RPG style with more passives and a whole bunch of alternative build possibilities. And no, I don't care what the die hard RPG'ers say, the game did *not* need an inventory system. It made no sense in ME1 and they were right to ditch it and even more right to not bring it back in ME3. My only gripe was the aesthetics of having the SMGs holstered in the same place as the pistol. I know it'd require more animation work but it should have been on the right thigh or something. Also, would have been nice to customize the weapons like you could the armours. As in change the colour and patterns yourself rather than have the mods randomly change the look.

Now back to the single player to avenge Thane!
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