Mass Effect 3

[Skywalker]

The nerfing of biotics is a general symptom of ME2's problems overall. A lot of the changes they made went farther than they really needed to go. I kind of think BioWare overreacted to some of the responses they got from ME1, and instead of making everyone happy, they just ended up alienating a completely different group of people instead. Hopefully they pulled it back a bit and ME3 will be a better balance between both of its predecessors.

And yeah, it was crazy fun going through ME1 with three characters with at least some biotics.

[clint g]

Skywalker wrote:

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The nerfing of biotics is a general symptom of ME2's problems overall. A lot of the changes they made went farther than they really needed to go. I kind of think BioWare overreacted to some of the responses they got from ME1, and instead of making everyone happy, they just ended up alienating a completely different group of people instead. Hopefully they pulled it back a bit and ME3 will be a better balance between both of its predecessors.

And yeah, it was crazy fun going through ME1 with three characters with at least some biotics.

yeah I agree. I would like them to bring back some equipment customization as well. It's not a must but I would still like it.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Skywalker wrote:

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instead of making everyone happy

They will never make everyone happy.

[Reverend]

clint g wrote:

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yeah I agree. I would like them to bring back some equipment customization as well. It's not a must but I would still like it.

If reports are right they're doing exactly that. While I welcome it in principle, I hope it'll take a similar form as the armour upgrade and customisation system from ME2 rather than reverting to looting. One of the many things they got right with ME2 was just completely doing away with the inventory system.

Aside from the obvious that it's completely ridiculous to have one soldier carrying around enough weapons and armour to equip half the Bolivian army, the idea that you should be able to change armour mid-fire fight is just beyond ludicrous. The method of scanning/reverse engineering or buying tech upgrades and applying them between missions makes so much more sense and takes a lot of the drudgery and grind out of the RPG experience.

I know a lot of old school RPG gamers defend looting and grinding mechanics rather vehemently (though Dagon knows why) but for me, even in games I enjoyed like Fallout, the most tedious part was carting the mountains of useless weapons, armour and other items to the nearest merchant so you can afford to buy something half decent. Even in a fantasy RPG it makes little to no sense for someone to be able to walk around with so much crap.

I recently decided to give Oblivion another try but I'm barely past level 2 and I'm already bored and have little interest in continuing knowing what a slow grind it's going to be and frankly, the plot just isn't gripping me (don't even get me started on the scenery!)

[clint g]

Indeed. I think the best way to do it would actually copy call of duty's load out system. Let you customize your weapons and armour when you are on the ship. This way you can still customize your character without micromanaging your inventory

[Saquist]

Reverend wrote:

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If reports are right they're doing exactly that. While I welcome it in principle, I hope it'll take a similar form as the armour upgrade and customisation system from ME2 rather than reverting to looting. One of the many things they got right with ME2 was just completely doing away with the inventory system.

Aside from the obvious that it's completely ridiculous to have one soldier carrying around enough weapons and armour to equip half the Bolivian army, the idea that you should be able to change armour mid-fire fight is just beyond ludicrous. The method of scanning/reverse engineering or buying tech upgrades and applying them between missions makes so much more sense and takes a lot of the drudgery and grind out of the RPG experience.

I know a lot of old school RPG gamers defend looting and grinding mechanics rather vehemently (though Dagon knows why) but for me, even in games I enjoyed like Fallout, the most tedious part was carting the mountains of useless weapons, armour and other items to the nearest merchant so you can afford to buy something half decent. Even in a fantasy RPG it makes little to no sense for someone to be able to walk around with so much crap.

I recently decided to give Oblivion another try but I'm barely past level 2 and I'm already bored and have little interest in continuing knowing what a slow grind it's going to be and frankly, the plot just isn't gripping me (don't even get me started on the scenery!)

I rather liked the looting aspect. It reminded me of the second game of X Men Legends and I like both the Original ME and X Men's legend of GRADUALLY adding abilities and seeing the improvement in your combat. The whole Omni Gell thing made enough sense that That it was clear there was some sort of matter producer but that does sound far fetched the tech is not that far and away over our heads.

What I really would like it the SAME variety of Armors they had in the original (that seemed realistic) and then mix that with equipping on board ship and not on the ground.

[T.Geiger]

Personally, I would kind of like to see them go to an upgrade system like Resident Evil 4. That is, you upgrade the various statistics of a weapon with monies.

I would also like to see them eject the entire "find an upgrade" system they had in ME2. Find a weapon/armor (blueprint), sure. But I'm not scouring the known universe to find a 10% increase that my brilliant scientist should have been able to research if I'd have given him a little more coffee.

[Reverend]

^I'd hardly call it scouring the universe since those kind of upgrade scans are just an extension of the experience points. A little extra reward for completing a mission or for exploring the map a little. Since most of them are right there in the story missions it's not exactly easy to miss them.

Unless you're referring to the resource scanning/probing required to actually research the tech, in which case I agree, that needs to go away.

Actually, based on comments made by developers it looks like they're going to change resource back to more or less what it was in ME1. That is actual deposits you find while roaming in your vehicle. The up side to that is that I suspect the open planetary environments will be a lot less "open" and more multi-path affairs like Overlord.

[Skywalker]

I'm more interested in getting back a deeper skill system. I'd love to see something like DA2's skill tree. I thought that was a very nice compromise between the typical RPG skill system and the more casual-friendly, scaled-down system we got in ME2.

[Reverend]

While I agree it worked great for DA2, I don't know if that'd work so well for ME. I mean, for all it's RPG elements, a good portion of Mass Effect's game-play has always been third person shooting, which is still mostly player skill based. The only way to make the kind of incremental stats increase seen in fantasy RPGs meaningful is to start out as a brain dead, blind cripple who couldn't hit the broad side of a budong...and that really wouldn't be a lot of fun to play. Conversely, a fully min-maxed character would feel like playing with a one-shot-kill aimbot. Equally lacking in appeal as it takes away from the skill factor. I suppose something similar to the talent trees could be used on a much smaller scale, but it's not far off the current method of binary evolving powers.

What did feel odd to me was the universal cool downs. I understand the individual cool downs made biotic characters damn near unstoppable, but to makes little sense for say an sentinel unable to use 'overload' because they just used 'throw'. Perhaps grouping the overloads into power types would make more sense? As in you use a biotic power and all biotic powers go into cooldown, but any tech or combat powers remain available. That should stop specialist classes having too much of an edge while still allowing the hybrid classes some more flexibility.

[Saquist]

T.Geiger wrote:

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Personally, I would kind of like to see them go to an upgrade system like Resident Evil 4. That is, you upgrade the various statistics of a weapon with monies.

I would also like to see them eject the entire "find an upgrade" system they had in ME2. Find a weapon/armor (blueprint), sure. But I'm not scouring the known universe to find a 10% increase that my brilliant scientist should have been able to research if I'd have given him a little more coffee.

From what I recently read in the Splash Cover Game Informer for ME the are going to keep the current system with tweeks. They said that the destruction of the Normandy and Shepard were a reason to make those changes and they don't want to go with a complete overall ut they did say they will be modifying this system to responds to the lack of role playing aspects that were the major criticism of ME2. Sounds like good news.

The say they are also modifying the mineral scanning
And not to expect the Mako hammerhead to make a full time comeback as it was in ME1.


If you ask me Mineral scanning should be pretty darn perilous with Reaper running around.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Saquist wrote:

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they did say they will be modifying this system to responds to the lack of role playing aspects that were the major criticism of ME2.

Mass Effect 2 was all about role playing. What the game did not have, however, was the kind of tedious inventory micro-management that old-school CRPG fans claim they like.

[Reverend]

^Absolutely agree, however, from what I've read they're going to be addressing the absence of what others call "role-playing elements" by adding customization options for the weapons and not a return to the tedious inventory management. As for the mineral scanning, that was only supposed to be a way of getting players to explore uncharted planets in the absence of the Mako. For ME3 they haven't locked in on how they're going to replace those mechanics, but it probably either going to be a combination of the two or something new.

[Saquist]

The Mirrorball Man wrote:

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Mass Effect 2 was all about role playing. What the game did not have, however, was the kind of tedious inventory micro-management that old-school CRPG fans claim they like.

I'm not familar with what is and isn't RPG but that would seem to fit the definition. I have to say I thought it was tedious at first but for some reason it made the game alot more replayable (along with other aspects) than ME2's upgrade system.

I think there is something about slowly progressing, advancing your skills incrementally and seeing the effect in game play, or getting more armor choices that made it more fun. I didn't have a desire to change outfit it ME2 because there was often no need to. That's not so in ME1. I learned very quickly that the right suit could keep you alive for just long enough to win. As a result I enjoyed the different styles they had while strictly avoiding anything that said Phoenix on the box.

[Herkimer Jitty]

Of course, weapons in ME1 are a completley different matter altogether. All assault rifles, shotguns, pistols and SRs act exactly the same as each other, with the main difference being in overheat capacity and stopping power. There is no CHOICE except to upgrade to a better looted weapon, or buy a rifle that's essentially the same as the current one, except with more numbers. There's no real difference in performance and behaviour.

All you have to do to get a guaranteed win in combat is to sell the truckloads of crappy guns and armor you aren't going to use anyways to make enough money to buy Spectre gear, then equip with double Frictionless Materials.

ME1's weapon system provides only false choices.

ME2's weapons on the other hand, perform differently from one another - every weapon has its own rate of fire, accuracy, and unique quirks - the Avenger, Vindicator, Geth Pulse Rifle, Mattock, and Revenant are not just another assault rifle, for example. It's a narrower system with fewer numbers and items, but it provides a hell of a lot more choices for the player. What they're doing with weapons in ME3 is only going to strengthen that level of choice.

That being said, a lot of the armor types in ME1 had much more variable stats. The ME2 armor pieces didn't do a whole ton of good for me - the most noticable equipment effects were from the Kuwashii Visor, the Off-Hand Ammo Pack and the Ordinance Pack. Then again, my main build is a soldier, and I play cautiously enough that I barely get hurt badly enough to test the limits of the N7 armor system.