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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 17 2010, 05:27 AM   #46
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

BillJ wrote: View Post
Devon wrote: View Post
Santa Claus wrote: View Post

It's like baking a cake. The more masterful, experienced, knowledgeable baker will generally produce a much better product, even if all of the other bakers have the exact same ingredients. That's the case here. Same general ingredients, different methods, different bakers, totally different results.
Very good way to put it.
I'm still convinced if this same exact film had come out with Rick Berman's name on it, it would have been a financial and critical failure.
Nah. Not enough people know or care who "Rick Berman" is for it to have any real financial impact. As for critical effect, maybe some, but nobody gives a frak about the critics anyway.
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Old January 2 2011, 02:58 AM   #47
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

Temis the Red-Nosed Vorta wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Devon wrote: View Post

Very good way to put it.
I'm still convinced if this same exact film had come out with Rick Berman's name on it, it would have been a financial and critical failure.
Nah. Not enough people know or care who "Rick Berman" is for it to have any real financial impact. As for critical effect, maybe some, but nobody gives a frak about the critics anyway.
I disagree people might not know the name. But Berman would have made a movie that was hated by both fans and non fans. People listen to the critics and a big part of the movies sucess was how positively it was reviewed. People thought this would actually be exciting trek and lots of people liked it who normally hate trek.
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Old January 2 2011, 03:06 AM   #48
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

[QUOTE





"Something different?" You do realize that an orbital skydiving scene was planned for Generations, and that we actually do see orbital skydiving in an episode of Voyager?

but it never made the film and was really pointleess and dull anyway i saw the deleted scene. Even if the visuals were there the dialouge wasnt worth it.
The only time i can think in voyager was when bellana was suicidal and it was a holodeck anyway.

So yeah it is sometrhing different its not been done properly and with excitement.
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Old January 3 2011, 10:07 PM   #49
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

BillJ wrote: View Post

I'm still convinced if this same exact film had come out with Rick Berman's name on it, it would have been a financial and critical failure.
I'm convinced that if Shakespeare's "Tragedy Of Julius Caesar" had been originally published in Penthouse in 1983 it wouldn't be taken as seriously by academes nor hold the place in the history of English literature that it does.

This supposition is fully as sensible, realistic and relevant as yours.
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Old January 4 2011, 12:29 AM   #50
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

Dennis wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I'm still convinced if this same exact film had come out with Rick Berman's name on it, it would have been a financial and critical failure.
I'm convinced that if Shakespeare's "Tragedy Of Julius Caesar" had been originally published in Penthouse in 1983 it wouldn't be taken as seriously by academes nor hold the place in the history of English literature that it does.

This supposition is fully as sensible, realistic and relevant as yours.
This is the TrekBBS. Things are only sensible, realistic and relevant by accident.
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Old January 4 2011, 12:29 AM   #51
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

Firstly and most importantly
The movie was supported by both Majel Barrett and Leonard Nimoy. They wouldn’t have participated unless they liked it. Nimoy turned down a role in Generations for example. Both of them were with Star Trek from its original pilot and were the best qualified to judge.
LN turned down the role in Generations due to not having any input or creative control (something he has stated in interviews of portraying the character in the story) ) was a major reason for doing so.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Leonard_Nimoy

Abandonment of tired Star Trek clichés
The Enterprise is not the only ship in range. 7 ships go to meet the Narada and there is an explanation for why there are not more.
I never needed a reason or excuse of why the Big E was the only ship in range, or the quadrant even. It fit the story at the time. In the TOS era Kirk stated in "Tomorrow is Yesterday" that there are only 12 Constitution Class ships in Starfleet at that time.And my isn't the galaxy a big place even in that time?

Lack of technobable, technology is there to facilitate the plot not to solve it.
Along with many others that liked the movie that is the opinion. I like a little technobabble.

Overuse of the transporter. For once the transporter isn’t an easy solution and has a sense of danger attached to it. When was the last time it was used in as exciting a way as it was over Vulcan?
There shouldn't be a "sense of danger" to an very important piece of equipment that is used every day.

Engaging characters
The interaction between Kirk, Spock and McCoy feel true to the how I remembered them. They are all interesting to watch and faithful to the original crew. For the first time since Star Trek IV each character also go their moment to shine. Even Chekov and Uhura, who were regularly just named back ground characters with a few lines.
Too bad they didn't feel like that to me. more is spent on the minor characters and "dumbing" them down" or "sexing them up" that didn't appeal to me.

Great music
The sound track is stirring and the main theme strikes just the right balance of being new yet keeping the Star Trek feel.
I felt disconnected to the soundtrack,..Why? I guess I didn't get connected to the characters as stated above.

Great action
Not many space scenes have been so fun to watch. With battles that are fast yet also make sense. Being the first movie since the motion picture to have a decent budget they definitely used the money well.
Great in the sense that there was too much IMO.

New Enterprise
The Enterprise has changed but it’s no more drastic than the change that happened when the ship was brought to the big screen. The Enterprise in Star Trek: The motion picture may as well have been a new ship. The creators of Star Trek XI did a good job with the latest design managing to stay true to the original style. They also introduced the glass windscreen which makes a lot of sense considering the location of a star fleet bridge. Now watching the other Trek shows I often think this. It would have helped in a lot of stories.
Again his own opinion. Sitting in the theater on opening day waiting to see the "refit" was exciting. Hell I knew the ship was going to be different (not that it was a "drastic" new ship and I was only 12.This new ship, and yes that is what it is,...could have a design that stuck with the original one.

The uniforms
Did anyone honestly think they could pull off the original costumes in a way that didn’t look cheap and unbelievable on the big screen?
No they do not,...it looks like something Aquaman would wear.

Genuinely funny
Definitely an area the TNG outings fell flat in this movie has some great lines.
I thoroughly enjoyed every "funny" line in the TNG movies.

Characters listen to music which isn't Classical or Jazz.The bar scene was very refreshing as we see that a positive view of the future doesn't have to ban club music.
And just what is wrong with classical music or jazz? Although I don't listen to it everyday I don't think there is nothing wrong with it in Star Trek. It's the characters hobbies is all I think. Now on the Beastie Boys never liked them probably never will....

Proper use of time travel
With all the complaints made about the plot people forget one important thing. The time travel wasn’t under anyone’s control it happened by accident! This avoided many of the pit falls that plagued Star Trek Voyager and Star Trek Enterprise. It wasn’t used as a magic trick which could allow characters to do what they liked and try again if they failed. It ine of the main reasons people hate the movie but its use is far more effective than in many Star Trek stories.
There have been good time travel stories in Trek and there have been bad. There could have been a better plot on just WHY it happened is my opinion.

The shot of the Enterprise rising above Titan
One of the best ship shots in any of the Star Treks.
I can name more although if I thought about it I can come up with more than 3:
1.The "E" and the Reliant engaging each other in the Mutara Nebula (and those were a lot more shots than that one...
2. The Enterprise-E first engaging the Cube in FC.
3. The same in the "Briar Patch" battle (even with the "joystick... ) in INS.

The best compliment I can give this movie is that it took me back to my childhood. It felt like I was watching classic Star Trek again. A feeling I haven’t had since Trials and Tribulations. The director JJ Abrams and the writers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman are clearly fond of Star Trek being loyal to what its about. They have also rediscovered the raw excitement and cowboy style that has been lost over the years. It will hopefully have saved Trek the way Wrath of Khan had.
I could tell the are fond of Trek but not really fans.
Again his opinion. I too grew up with Trek but did not feel like that. And what was wrong with Picards "cowboy diplomacy" in the TNG films?
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Old January 4 2011, 04:57 PM   #52
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

I love classical music and jazz i just found it ridiculous how it was only music characters listened to on other trek show. I dnt mind the only ship thing as long as the threats not heading toward the centre of the federation which needs protecting.
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Old January 5 2011, 10:54 AM   #53
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

G2309 wrote: View Post
I love classical music and jazz i just found it ridiculous how it was only music characters listened to on other trek show.
I agree. I think part of that had to do with the "Utopian Society" crap and that the producers or whomever made these decisions felt that other forms of music were not appropriate for Star Trek and it's "Holier than Thou" attitude of TNG and onwards. I'm surprised someone wasn't fired for allowing a guitar to be seen in "The Neutral Zone." I never got that feeling from TOS or its movies, though.
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Old January 5 2011, 04:45 PM   #54
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

I think it was less of a "holier than thou attitude" and more of a "will this seem dated in a few years attitude." They probably wanted to avoid pop culture to avoid any ridiculousness like "The Way to Eden." They were playing it a little bit too safe though. It wouldn't have hurt to throw in something like a little Jimi Hendrix (and not as something just experienced through time travel like in "Past Tense").

I think it was fine to put "Sabotage" into the movie because it has a classic potential. It was also 15 years old at the time, so if it still worked and wasn't frowned upon (like disco would have been for TNG), why not use it? Will it be popular in 250 years? That's hard to imagine, but it's possible.
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Old January 5 2011, 06:20 PM   #55
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

It was a fun film. I like it well enough and look forward to more in the series.

G2309 wrote: View Post
Yeah I thought they did an amazing job with it. I also like the way the Kelvin uniforms were like the cage pilot.
In what way? They were actually more akin to the TNG uniforms; skintight, possibly one-piece, with the same lines along the collarbone and shoulder. The producers actually said they wanted the Kelvin time period to seem more like "50's sci-fi" rather than anything Trek related.

They also introduced the glass windscreen which makes a lot of sense considering the location of a star fleet bridge. Now watching the other Trek shows I often think this. It would have helped in a lot of stories.
Actually, I found that to be something that made NO logical sense and wouldn't make any significant positive impact on any of the other series if done this way. Granted, the "heart" of the ship where the command staff is located shouldn't be at the very top of the saucer where it is easy pickings even in regular Trek. But at least it's shielded all around but the thickness of the hull. Having the glass window just made them even more vulnerable. Once the shields fail, one decent shot from an enemy could shatter that glass and blow everyone out into space. At the climax of the film, the gravity well was cracking it, illustrating what a bad design move that was. It just compounds an already bad design choice.

Watching the Kelvin bridge bathed in bright starlight until Robau polarizes the viewscreen is another thing. Everyone's gotta turn away or squint or wear sunglasses until the captain authorizes use of the glare shield? Just seems weird to me.

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Both are good pieces of music, though.
As a theme "Enterprising Young Men" beats the slow, dark (but fitting) TDM-machine music by a longshot.
Discounting personal preference, theirs is really no way you can describe Sol Kaplan's Doomsday Machine score as "slow, dark." It has quieter pieces, like the 2009 score did, but it was also legendary for being loud and frequently exciting. Whether or not you like one more than the other is another matter.
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Old January 5 2011, 07:06 PM   #56
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

ssosmcin wrote: View Post

Once the shields fail, one decent shot from an enemy could shatter that glass and blow everyone out into space. At the climax of the film, the gravity well was cracking it, illustrating what a bad design move that was. It just compounds an already bad design choice.
Which is what happened to the Enterprise in Star Trek: Nemesis, except there was no window.
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Old January 5 2011, 08:08 PM   #57
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

BillJ wrote: View Post
ssosmcin wrote: View Post

Once the shields fail, one decent shot from an enemy could shatter that glass and blow everyone out into space. At the climax of the film, the gravity well was cracking it, illustrating what a bad design move that was. It just compounds an already bad design choice.
Which is what happened to the Enterprise in Star Trek: Nemesis, except there was no window.
It also happened in Wrath of Khan, when Enterprise tore a chunk out of Reliant's bridge and killed Khan's mini-me. The moral of the story is, don't get hit with shields down.
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Old January 6 2011, 12:24 AM   #58
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Once the shields fail, one decent shot from an enemy could shatter that glass and blow everyone out into space. At the climax of the film, the gravity well was cracking it, illustrating what a bad design move that was. It just compounds an already bad design choice.
Someone should have told Jefferies and Probert that too...
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Old January 6 2011, 03:29 AM   #59
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

BillJ wrote: View Post
Which is what happened to the Enterprise in Star Trek: Nemesis, except there was no window.
No saucer outside from that view either. The 2009 movie got that 100% right.

Anyway, just having cracks along the glass as they fought the gravity well is a pretty good indication that "glass unsafe." The glass would rupture a lot sooner than a hull or double hull.

On the other hand, it's a movie and it ain't gonna happen unless it's necessary to the plot. :-)
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Old January 6 2011, 04:30 AM   #60
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Re: Someone who enjoyed Star Trek XI

Forget about the shields. Just aim a visible light laser at the middle of the window and punch a hole right through the captain.
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