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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old November 22 2010, 07:33 PM   #31
Kelthaz
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

I think it would be out of character for him to stay in the Klingon army, but I do buy him joining during the Dominion War. His people, both of them, being in extreme danger overrules his human side and he joins the army to fight the Dominion and bring honour to his name.
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Old November 22 2010, 07:50 PM   #32
indolover
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

In TNG, Guinan told Worf that Alexander one day would explore Klingon heritage more. Maybe her prediction came to pass. In that sense, I don't see it as inconsistent writing.
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Old November 23 2010, 09:14 PM   #33
TiberiusMaximus
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
I think it would be out of character for him to stay in the Klingon army, but I do buy him joining during the Dominion War. His people, both of them, being in extreme danger overrules his human side and he joins the army to fight the Dominion and bring honour to his name.
And I'd like to think he was eventually successful in that, maybe not being thought of by other Klingons as a great typical Klingon warrior, but respecting him in his own right. I'm actually thinking of writing some fanfic along those lines.
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Old November 23 2010, 10:55 PM   #34
Nightdiamond
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

If you think about it, Alexander was setting himself up to fail in Klingon culture.

As a child he repeatedly rejected warrior training and Klingon rituals. Later he joins the Klingon corps, expecting to become a great warrior.

Alexander tended to be all over the place with his character-- sometimes he appeared really interested in Klingon stuff like fighting, Kahlest etc, but then later he seems to reject it all.

Maybe Alexander shares some of the blame--

Or maybe Worf was a bit too extreme with the 'a Klingon's life is his job', 'I lead a warrior's life', thing.
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Old November 24 2010, 12:21 AM   #35
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

Jack Bauer wrote: View Post
Firstborn was an alternate future Alexander anyways. I think that Nemesis is past the time that Work was killed in the Firstborn timeline. Well, I'm half sure anyways...
I don't believe "Firstborn" established at what point in Alexander's alternate timeline that Worf died; as far as the timeline went, all we knew was that Alexander had traveled back forty years.
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Old November 24 2010, 12:42 AM   #36
exodus
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

I think Alexander fell into line about what Jadzia had explained about the race, that Klingons are as diversified a race as any other. While we mostly only see the warrior type ones, because they are the Empires form of military. We've never really seen many other Klingons that aren't. There are Klingon doctors, lawyers, chefs, artists, etc. Are they all aggressive? Even as a child Alexander was never aggressive but rather passive. It didn't surprise me in the least that he might grow up into that type of young adult.

Besides, how do we not know that what he experiences in the war isn't what changes him into the future one we saw in TNG? Seeing death and war first hand changes people, sometimes drastically.
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Old November 24 2010, 01:05 AM   #37
悪いキムチ
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

I liked the progression. Yes, he was cringe-worthy at times but it was overall interesting and a refreshing character, different than the usual stereotypical Klingon.
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Old November 24 2010, 08:53 AM   #38
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

Seeing as Gowron destroyed the house of Mog in DS9, there was no way the events of Firstborn could have happen in the first place, IMO.

Worf and then Alexander joined the house of Martog.

Unless Martog restored the house somehow, but the episode seemed to imply the House of Mog always stood.

I agree, TNG had a few touching scenes between Alexander and Worf, but by the time of DS9, they grew so far apart, Alexander wanted to Bat'leth the hell out of Worf for a moment.
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Old November 24 2010, 11:54 AM   #39
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

Joshonator wrote: View Post
Although i think his role in DS9 was quite annoying, I buy the story with him feeling betrayed by his father. He is 1/4 human after all... But I think it would've been more in character if he became a doctor or something instead of running off to the klingon army.

That's something we've not seen much of...Klingon doctor. I like it.
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Old November 24 2010, 08:18 PM   #40
chelly
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

DS9 Gal AZ wrote: View Post
I don't think they neccessarily ruined Alexander. True, they aged him about 10 years, which is a common soap opera trope, but that can be explained through fanwank: Klingons mature more rapidly than humans, and Alexander is mostly Klingon (they did the same thing with Naomi Wildman on VOY and explained her rapid aging as inheritance from her Katarian father, because Katarian children conveniently mature faster than human ones).

And yes, when we saw Alexander as a child on TNG he wanted nothing to do with Klingon culture and being a warrior, but given his father pretty much ignored him after TNG, maybe he subconsciously felt he was being punished by daddy for not embracing Klingon values, and so did a 180. Unfortunately, since he didn't keep up with the little training Worf gave him in his childhood he was woefully underprepared for combat. At least he got his father's attention, which he was understandably desperate for. Also, as he got older I'm sure he realized how very 'not human' he was and maybe regretted turning away from Klingon culture, because he probably didn't fit in very well on Earth.

Frankly I'm glad they brought Alexander on, even if it could have been handled a little bit differently. It's better than just forgetting/ignoring the fact that Worf had a son, which they'd already done for long enough.
I agree with this. I also think DS9 kind of ruined Worf in regard to Alexander even though he did ignore his son for a couple of years on TNG. Though I do like what they have done with Alexander in the TNG novelizations. That seems to make up for the way the tv shows treated him. I still wish we had been able to see more of him on DS9.
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Old November 25 2010, 05:35 AM   #41
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

EJA wrote: View Post
There were hints on TNG that Worf's son Alexander could grow into quite an interesting character in future. But then the writers of DS9 decided to bring him into the show, and, IMO, completely botched the character, turning him into a bungling, Clouseau-type figure who was hopeless at everything and suitable only for derision. I feel that he could have been so much more than the pathetic comedy character we ended up with. How do others feel?
I think the confusion and direction of Alexander made a lot of sense. Worf, from a young age in a strange land, was brought up with younger parents and devoted himself to all things Klingon with a level of dedication that could have rivaled any child on the homeworld-- if anything, his situation carved him into a great warrior and wise, balanced officer.

Alexander's childhood was a little more difficult. Mother, opposed to traditional Klingon values, dies suddenly and horrifically-- with a father casting a HUGE shadow who shuttles him off to Earth to be raised as a human. Caught between worlds and confused, he eventually decides to serve on a Klingon ship, but he is already YEARS behind where the other children would be.

Before Alexander would ever become more like his father, he would undoubtedly go through a very awkward and difficult period of adapting and dealing with the disadvantages of his youth.

I really liked the episode where he serves on the ship with Worf. I always felt like they put a lot of thought into Alexander's dramatic jump in character development.
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Old November 27 2010, 07:54 AM   #42
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
Seeing as Gowron destroyed the house of Mog in DS9, there was no way the events of Firstborn could have happen in the first place, IMO.

Worf and then Alexander joined the house of Martog.

Unless Martog restored the house somehow, but the episode seemed to imply the House of Mog always stood.

I agree, TNG had a few touching scenes between Alexander and Worf, but by the time of DS9, they grew so far apart, Alexander wanted to Bat'leth the hell out of Worf for a moment.
"Generations" fundamentally altered the timeline by killing the Duras sisters, long before Gowron stripped the house of Mogh of its honor and holdings, and rendering it outcast.

Oh, and it's Martok, not Martog.
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Old November 27 2010, 07:59 AM   #43
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

DS9 didn't ruin Alexander, it *saved* him. By joining the Klingon fleet, Alexander got something to do, a place to feel useful - which is all he really wants. And I find it realistic that even though he's not exactly the best warrior the KDF has, he does well enough, and manages to get by (i.e. he's not weak or ineffectual, just...normal).
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Old November 30 2010, 11:20 AM   #44
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

I thought Alexander was ruined on TNG (he even had a bit of an age jump on that show). The character was a mess. I don't think that DS9 fixed him exactly, but it certainly didn't ruin him. They only had him in two episodes but I thought the actor did a fine job and the storyline seemed to flow pretty well. It didn't bother me at all.
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Old December 6 2010, 02:57 AM   #45
Navaros
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Re: DS9 ruined Alexander Rozhenko

EJA wrote: View Post
completely botched the character, turning him into a bungling, Clouseau-type figure who was hopeless at everything and suitable only for derision.
How is that different from him on TNG? I'm no TNG expert but I do recall being bored to tears by bumbling Alexander wasting an hour of my life in the useless filler episodes "Fistful of Datas" in which he gets trapped in a holosuite program and daddy has to also waste an hour of my life performing nonsensical acts to save him.

IMO Alexander was never much of a character to being with. DS9's treatment of him just expounded on that.
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