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Old July 27 2011, 08:47 AM   #1846
BlobVanDam
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

What douchey things to say. I mean, to say that to someone else is one thing and not so bad I guess, but to say it directly to you is extremely unprofessional, and not even productive. It's just pissy and petty and throwing around his weight.
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Old July 27 2011, 09:07 AM   #1847
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Fuzzy Modem wrote: View Post
Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
I hope it's not me. No Seriously.
It's Richardson I'm sure. Statistically speaking, there was always going to be a "Richardson." That's the internet for you.

I'm pretty blown away that CapnLogan would engage with him directly.

Congratulations btw I really like the changes, but they definitely kept her "soul" so to speak

Do you have a color scheme preference?
Got it in one!

Normally I wouldn't let it bother me, but he's been as constant as the northern star since the diaries started up, and I'd finally had enough of him to be honest.
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Old July 27 2011, 09:30 AM   #1848
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

So I am chatting with Gabe as I write this, was an off day for him, so disregard the post I put up.
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Old July 27 2011, 09:48 AM   #1849
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Well, not a man of many words, so I'll just say that I think the design really works. Very recognisable as a Starfleet vessel, while still using design elements we haven't seen before. Cudos to the designer.

Oh, and a big thumbs down to Gabrielwhatshisname, for being a little kid who needs attention.
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Old July 27 2011, 12:55 PM   #1850
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Gabe may have had an off day, but he had a good point....What Cryptic did WAS just turning it into a big ass Nova class. I made a rough version of the E-F in 3D yesterday and I gotta say, when I was staring at those orthos for about an hour trying to create the mesh....it did nothing for me. Its OK, its inoffensive, but its bland. Ihlecreation's original sketch seemed far superior to the final result imo.
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Old July 27 2011, 01:27 PM   #1851
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Gabe and I talked a bit about this, and yes there are similarities in the Sovereign, the Nova and the Odyssey classes. I will admit that the Nova and Odyssey have the same basic shape, but the Odyssey has a much more fluid look IMO. The Nova looks built, while the Odyssey looks sculpted, more organic. I am not defending this just because I have a hand in it. We all know that I would have done alot of things different. But all in all I like the final design. I am amazed at how so many can look at this and everyone see something different. Actually really neat.
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Old July 27 2011, 02:40 PM   #1852
Dac
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
Gabe and I talked a bit about this, and yes there are similarities in the Sovereign, the Nova and the Odyssey classes. I will admit that the Nova and Odyssey have the same basic shape, but the Odyssey has a much more fluid look IMO. The Nova looks built, while the Odyssey looks sculpted, more organic. I am not defending this just because I have a hand in it. We all know that I would have done alot of things different. But all in all I like the final design. I am amazed at how so many can look at this and everyone see something different. Actually really neat.

It looks ok as a ship, but I think the final result is suffering from what 95% of all the submissions suffered from - it doesnt look like an Enterprise. Now, Im willing to concede that a large part of that is down to the details. That texture is not doing it any favors, it just looks too plain. I don't know. I might carry on with my mesh but invent my own details instead of following those on the STO mesh. It might make me happier
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Old July 27 2011, 06:32 PM   #1853
Fuzzy Modem
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
Not sure if you have ever seen my early sketches, but i actually had a few ideas similar to yours although yours had a sleekness I just didn't hit so I went another direction.
I notice you were experimenting with convex curves along the neck and engineering section. I really dig it, but it gave you a hard intersection between the necks and secondary hull. I think the smooth transition was a better choice. I bet it was a tough one

I would say the the most significant improvement on your design was pulling the back of the necks into the curve of the nacelle struts. It's a powerful yet graceful shape, and makes her look very cutting-edge and sturdy.

Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
As for the colors, I am undecided, I think I like the cleaner look.
Me too. I've always seen the Enterprise as a "White Knight."


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Old July 27 2011, 09:23 PM   #1854
Ihlecreations
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Fuzzy Modem wrote: View Post
Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
Not sure if you have ever seen my early sketches, but i actually had a few ideas similar to yours although yours had a sleekness I just didn't hit so I went another direction.
I notice you were experimenting with convex curves along the neck and engineering section. I really dig it, but it gave you a hard intersection between the necks and secondary hull. I think the smooth transition was a better choice. I bet it was a tough one

I would say the the most significant improvement on your design was pulling the back of the necks into the curve of the nacelle struts. It's a powerful yet graceful shape, and makes her look very cutting-edge and sturdy.

Ihlecreations wrote: View Post
As for the colors, I am undecided, I think I like the cleaner look.
Me too. I've always seen the Enterprise as a "White Knight."

Oh I have gone back to the things I did, and basically all the stuff I did after the contest has been scrapped in favor of some new ideas, I will post some new stuff soon but I am gonna play this one close to the chest for a bit. No peeking.
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Old July 28 2011, 12:51 AM   #1855
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Those of us who don't go to the Cryptic boards have no idea what's going on... but I guess that's OK, huh?

Because I missed the original quotes, I'm stuck with sort of inferring who did what to whom. I get the impression that this may have been Gabe Koerner. If it's not, it would be a good idea to say so (and thus to clear his name entirely).

I also get the impression that whowever we're talking about was critical of the direction taken in the design by Cryptic. Well... there's nothing whatsoever wrong with being critical. (I say this from personal experience! ) The trick is to make your criticism based upon a reasoned, and supportable, position, rather than from an emotion-driven one.

I have my own criticisms of the design process used by Cryptic, but since I'm not a paying customer (and since I truly never expect to see this ship design used anywhere else but in this game, or perhaps in some follow-on game?) I'm not terribly bothered by it.

I recognize why they chose Adam's concept, and it seems like a passably reasonable justification. I certainly have no issue with Adam or with his design. I've been uniformly underimpressed by how STO has been run from the day it was first announced... their abuse of the creative input of folks who'd worked on the TV shows and movies left me with a sour taste in my mouth LONG before this came up... the managerial flip-flops did the same... and the rules for the contest were all I needed to see to know I wasn't interested in this.

That said... I don't know what was "douchy" and I've actually always hated that sort of "kewl" lingo. Either he was attacking things based purely upon ego and emotion... in which case, I'd agree with the sentiment if not the nomenclature... or he was attacking things that are legimate areas of contention and there are people who think that anything other than "oh wow, it's awesomenessnessnessness!!!!!!!!!'" is unacceptable. If it was the latter, I'll defend the guy all day, even if he wasn't as "politic" as he might have been.

So.. anyone wanna give the cliff's notes version of this little adventure?
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Old July 28 2011, 12:57 AM   #1856
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Those of us who don't go to the Cryptic boards have no idea what's going on... but I guess that's OK, huh?

Because I missed the original quotes, I'm stuck with sort of inferring who did what to whom. I get the impression that this may have been Gabe Koerner. If it's not, it would be a good idea to say so (and thus to clear his name entirely).

I also get the impression that whowever we're talking about was critical of the direction taken in the design by Cryptic. Well... there's nothing whatsoever wrong with being critical. (I say this from personal experience! ) The trick is to make your criticism based upon a reasoned, and supportable, position, rather than from an emotion-driven one.

I have my own criticisms of the design process used by Cryptic, but since I'm not a paying customer (and since I truly never expect to see this ship design used anywhere else but in this game, or perhaps in some follow-on game?) I'm not terribly bothered by it.

I recognize why they chose Adam's concept, and it seems like a passably reasonable justification. I certainly have no issue with Adam or with his design. I've been uniformly underimpressed by how STO has been run from the day it was first announced... their abuse of the creative input of folks who'd worked on the TV shows and movies left me with a sour taste in my mouth LONG before this came up... the managerial flip-flops did the same... and the rules for the contest were all I needed to see to know I wasn't interested in this.

That said... I don't know what was "douchy" and I've actually always hated that sort of "kewl" lingo. Either he was attacking things based purely upon ego and emotion... in which case, I'd agree with the sentiment if not the nomenclature... or he was attacking things that are legimate areas of contention and there are people who think that anything other than "oh wow, it's awesomenessnessnessness!!!!!!!!!'" is unacceptable. If it was the latter, I'll defend the guy all day, even if he wasn't as "politic" as he might have been.

So.. anyone wanna give the cliff's notes version of this little adventure?

Long story short, Gabe contacted me via FB and basically called me a no talent hack and such, a few things about the people in the suits, etc. But he and I talked it out, he had a bit of libations and was having a bad day, he has since removed any of his rant, and he and I had a nice long talk last night. He is a pretty good guy actually and after hearing what happened I can see why he was so bitter, not going to get into the what s and why as it was between He and I, needless to say it is a non issue, so lets move on and forget it.
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Old July 28 2011, 02:26 PM   #1857
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Back to topic then... Its a nice Oberth on steroids *runs*
"This is NOT yer grampa's Oberth.. no more lucky shot.. this one.. FIRES BACK!" *sounds of torpedo and phaser fire* fade to black..

More seriously, nothing offensive about the design, they don't seem to aim impulse engines at stuff, the double neck is quite nice, its very 24th and a half! century looking so all in all I guess its okay, doesn't sound too overly excited but thats mainly because it doesn't really have any history, its not the TOS or TNG E if you know what I mean.
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Old July 28 2011, 05:52 PM   #1858
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

At this point, I personally love the Odyssey class. I love how the double neck is used to integrate both hulls, which is how I imagined that it could have looked like. She has a pair of semi-necks, but the are small, and they are a part of the engineering hull, as opposed to attached sections. I also love how it has a curve from the side view that recalls the cobra hood of the Galaxy class. And I personally love the pointy snout, which reminds me of how I imagined my own entry. This isn't necessarily a characteristic of the Nova class. It is more of a slightly aggressive take on the horizontal elliptical saucer. And finally, she has managed to retain the sleekness of the Sovereign class.

In the end, the Enterprise-F has become as I had imagined her, so I'm certainly happy.
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Old July 28 2011, 10:29 PM   #1859
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

I have a big favor to ask of you Adam.

With the contest site now gone, the Runners up, such as Vektor and Chris Madden are now broken links.

Do you think you could create a thread on the STO forums asking that those links be fixed?

Not that the contest site be restored mind you, but I imagine they still have those 21 images on hard copy somewhere. They just need to be hosted and the links re-directed.

Alternately I'd be grateful to any of you other STO posters who'd be willing to ask, but I think it would mean a lot more coming from you Adam.

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Old July 29 2011, 01:50 AM   #1860
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Re: Design the Next Enterprise

Fuzzy Modem wrote: View Post
I have a big favor to ask of you Adam.

With the contest site now gone, the Runners up, such as Vektor and Chris Madden are now broken links.

Do you think you could create a thread on the STO forums asking that those links be fixed?

Not that the contest site be restored mind you, but I imagine they still have those 21 images on hard copy somewhere. They just need to be hosted and the links re-directed.

Alternately I'd be grateful to any of you other STO posters who'd be willing to ask, but I think it would mean a lot more coming from you Adam.

I will see what I can do.
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