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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old November 18 2010, 11:33 AM   #1
Reeborg
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Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Strange argument that Q had caused the Borg's awareness of humans. They (the borg) had already destroyed (and probably) assimilated human and Romulan outposts (population, Season 1). So why was it stated that the encounter in Q Who would be responsable?
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Old November 18 2010, 01:16 PM   #2
Timo
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Prior to that encounter, humans were fairly primitive and uninteresting as far as assimilation targets went. No assimilation action seemed to follow the Neutral Zone scooping. But in "Q Who?", Q gave Picard's ship the ability to appear out of nowhere, and then disappear from the clutches of the Borg. Surely a development worth checking on...

The Borg had probably known about humans since time immemorial, since they are said to be a hundred thousand years old, if not older still. Q couldn't be blamed for the fact that humans are listed as "Species 5618" by the Borg (a number lower than those of some other Alpha species such as Yridians and Ktarians). But he could be blamed on making humans an interesting species!

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Old November 18 2010, 01:28 PM   #3
Reeborg
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

OK, the outpost technology is surely not "evolved" enough for the Borg in order to find Humans, Romulans etc "interesting".
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Old November 18 2010, 01:34 PM   #4
Timo
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Exactly. That's the sort of stuff eleven Milky Way species out of ten appear to have (even if the Delta Quadrant folks don't seem to have figured out how to make transporters). That's old news for the Borg. But "Q-tech" would certainly pique their interest.

If Romulans and humans were interesting as such, one'd think the Borg would have done something about it. Apparently, they didn't.

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Old November 18 2010, 02:16 PM   #5
MikeS
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

An interesting line of reasoning Timo.
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Old November 18 2010, 02:53 PM   #6
Timo
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

To be sure, the idea that Q went "Borg, mankind. Mankind, Borg" is a fandom one only. The episodes themselves don't make such an allusion. Instead, our heroes feel that Q's revealing the horrific Borg to mankind, a one-sided affair, might have been a welcome wake-up that would help the Federation better prepare against future threats. Not quite the same thing as Q revealing mankind's existence to the Borg.

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Old November 18 2010, 03:45 PM   #7
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

^I think your point there is correct, Timo. Q introducing the Feds to the Borg was to warn Picard and company that "this is what's out there". I think he even says something to that effect, IIRC.
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Old November 18 2010, 03:48 PM   #8
Jochk
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Also I think the mindset of bettering yourself may have been something that they wanted to get into the biological 'section' of their assimilation
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Old November 18 2010, 04:32 PM   #9
Satyrquaze
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Setting aside the Neutral Zone outposts, we know that the Borg were already aware there was something up about the Alpha quadrant.

The ENT episode "Regeneration" postulates the Borg were already sending a ship to investigate the Alpha quadrant because back in 2155 (or so) a signal was sent to the Delta quadrant detailing Earth's location. The signal just took 200 years to get there.

When Q sent the Enterprise to system J-25, they were still well within the Beta quadrant. Possibly only a few sectors away from Romulan space. So, what were the Borg doing there if not already expanding toward the Alpha quadrant.
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Old November 18 2010, 09:03 PM   #10
C.E. Evans
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Of course, there's also the bit about the Hanson family making contact with the Borg years before the Enterprise-D did. Even allowing that the Borg may have known about Humans for a very long time, the Borg may have received a significant update on the previously uninteresting Species 5618 from the computer aboard the ill-fated Raven--and from a little Human girl they assimilated previously known as Annika...
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Old November 18 2010, 10:13 PM   #11
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

I'm not so sure that it was even 'Q-tech' that got the Borg's interest. I think it may have been the 1701-D itself.

The Borg may well have been aware of humans for quite some time, depending on what ret-con you adhere to, and simply didn't find them worthy of interest...yet. Perhaps they had them on their 'watch list'. Perhaps it was even the encounter with the Raven that caused the Borg to take a closer look (scoop) at the colonies along the neutral zone. It is possible that the tech they encountered there still wasn't enough to get their interest.

It's really not that big of a leap. Many would say that the colonies would of had plenty of 'modern tech'. To an extent, sure. But there are plenty of on screen examples that show that most colonies are just that. Not high tech, uber industrialized centers of trade, but colonies in which to live and grow. In most cases they are not even close to the tech level of the Enterprise. That's why they always seemed to need its help.

Now consider if the Borg would have targeted a Star Base instead of the boarder colonies. That would have created an entirely different chain of events. There, they would have encountered the Federation's tech at its highest level and immediately made the entire Federation a target for assimilation. But unbeknownst to them, they chose the wrong target and ended up with 'bad data'.

Now fast forward two years and Q comes a long and decides to teach Picard & Co a lesson and plops them somewhere in system J-25. The last human ship the Borg had encountered (at least that we know of) was the Raven. Compaired to Enterprise, the Raven would be like compairing a P-51 to a F-22. When the Borg encounter Enterprise and scan its database realizing just how advanced Fed Tech really is, humans go instantly from the 'watch list' to the 'assimilate list'.

Fortunately for Picard & Co, JLP admits his that he needs Q, they are 'snapped' home at the last minute, and the Fed now know that the Borg are coming. Kick in their complacency accomplished.
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Old November 19 2010, 11:01 AM   #12
Trek Survivor
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Can I just make clear that NOTHING in "The Neutral Zone" or "Q Who" confirms that the Borg were responsible for the outposts destruction. Yes, it was originally intended that way, but to my knowledge the aired episodes didn't confirm it was the Borg.
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Old November 19 2010, 11:39 AM   #13
Timo
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

Quite so. In "BoBW", Shelby and Data establish that the scooping up of the Jouret colony was done by the same folks who scooped up the J-25 civilization, but they don't claim that the forensic evidence would also connect the Neutral Zone outposts to the same perps. In fact, later episodes don't mention the RNZ incidents at all.

It should be noted, though, that what was destroyed at the RNZ was a series of "outposts" and "starbases", not colonies. Also, throughout the first season of TNG, something was amiss at the Neutral Zone - references to it were made in "Heart of Glory" and "Angel One" - so Starfleet would probably have been devoting resources to these bases. If top-notch Starfleet military technology was what makes the Borg hot and bothered, then, they would have gotten a taste of it from those installations already. In that case, the "Q Who?" encounter would not have been an important milestone.

Of course, we may be completely mistaken in the assumption that something triggered the Borg interest. For all we know, the Borg had already written down an assimilation schedule three thousand years ago: "1000 years from now, go see if use of iron is widespread. 2000 years on, check on progress in global transportation and spreading of agriculture to hostile climes. 2500 years from this point, see if there's any industry or EM activity. Depending on results, increase the frequency of visits. Assimilate when warp tech surpasses Specification 8882B or the Exotic New Tech Index reaches 12.5. " The RNZ scoops and the "BoBW" invasion may have been scheduled events.

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Old November 19 2010, 02:47 PM   #14
Nerdius Maximus
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

The Borg were first encountered by Captain EO who DISassimilated them and turned them into background dancers!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKvA...layer_embedded
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Old November 19 2010, 03:31 PM   #15
Satyrquaze
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Re: Q who ! First Borg encounter ???

  • In "The Neutral Zone" the Federation and the Romulans discover that outposts on both sides of the Zone have been "scooped up" and carried off.
  • In the following season: "Q-Who" Q sends the Enterprise to system J-25 to teach the crew a lesson and Worf declares that the class-M planet in the system was attacked in a way that is identical to what happened to the outposts along the Neutral Zone.
  • The following season: "The Best of Both Worlds" Shelby says that what happened to Juret IV is almost identical to Riker's reports of system J-25.
So, yes. They do establish a continuity of forensic evidence, you should would have to pay close attention throughout 3 seasons to catch it.
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