The Dark Knight to have a female villain?

[Admiral_Young]

Ahh...no worries then. We still need some news though

[the G-man]

Myasishchev wrote:

---

Also, before I forget: if they do have Talia--and I guess it's a moot point now since Ra's was played by an Irishman....

Funny thing is: Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of Batman comics knows that the character is middle eastern. But if he had been played by a middle eastern actor, you'd have had CAIR and a ton of supposed "enlightened" people pitching a fit because he was perpetuating the stereotype of the middle eastern terrorist.

[Admiral_Young]

I think we are going to need a "Dark Knight Rises" ongoing discussion thread. The big rumor right now is that Tom Hardy's role will be Dr. Hugo Strange.

[Myasishchev]

Lack of Arabic actors (in Hollywood) of Neeson's statute might also have been a problem. I really can't name an A-list Arabic actor. Hell, the only Arabic actor I can name at all is Alex Siddig. I'd suspect there are plenty of others, but I have no idea who they are.

Twenty or thirty years ago, of course, there would have been only one rational choice: Omar Sharif. God, that would have been sweet.

[Trent Roman]

the G-man wrote:

---

First off, this isn't an "all environmentalists are terrorists" argument so there's no attempt to "villify" the entire movement being made here.

That's exactly what it is. In 2005, the FBI under the directions of Bush regime labeled so-called "ecoterrorism" and the animal-rights movement "the No. 1 domestic terrorism threat" in the country. So, by this logic, hooligans like E.L.F. are a greater threat than the heavily armed, violently insular and usually supremacist (white-, Christian-, or both) organizations that riddle the country, have a declared goal of apocalyptic warfare, and have spawned mass-murderers like Timothy McVeigh. They're also a greater threat than Americans who have been radicalized to the cause of Islamic fundamentalists and seek to wage deadly jihad against their fellow citizens in imitation or alliance with organizations like Al-Qaeda, responsible for the slaughter of thousands, and have spawned mass-murderers like Major Hasan. To call such a statement an exagerration seems, itself, like a grotesque understatement. What's the reason behind this? To create the idea of an 'eco-terrorist' movement in juxtaposition with which legitimate environmentalist organizations are rendered suspect, and acts of civil disobediance rendered criminal, or leading to criminal activity; the creation of this 'eco-terrorist' discourse is how the FBI justified its now discredited schemes of domestic espionnage on organizations like Greenpeace and PETA, or placing environmental activists of no criminal background on terror watch lists. The 'eco-terrorism' you invoke of is a manufactured concept designed to suppress legitimate speech and action.

The KKK example proves that this is patently absurd. Even if the KKK doesn't kill somebody, the act of having a cross burned in someone's yard is going to be, any reasonable measure, terrifying.

We've been over this. The K.K.K. is an organization of racist maniacs dedicated to genocide with a history of murder. All their actions are statements of violence, recalled or promised, against entire populations.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

[JacksonArcher]

I'm hearing Anne Hathaway might be Catwoman. Again, take it with a shaker of salt.

[Admiral_Young]

Anne Hathaway has long been rumored for that part...even before there was any active progress on the film. I'd be fine with that if it happened.

[Kegg]

the G-man wrote:

---

But if he had been played by a middle eastern actor, you'd have had CAIR and a ton of supposed "enlightened" people pitching a fit because he was perpetuating the stereotype of the middle eastern terrorist.

Even so I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to use Ra's al-Ghul at all wasn't moivated by current events.

[Captaindemotion]

^ The original casting choices were Viggo Mortensen (America/ Danish), Daniel Day-Lewis (English born, Irish passport holder) and then Neeson (Irish/UK citizenship). The character originally seemed to have a French name and wavering Irish-Enghlish accent Then there was the decoy Japanese Ra's. I don't think there was ever any intent to have him be Arabic.

[Garak]

I don't know how you can pull off Catwoman in this "Nolan grittydark universe".

[Admiral_Young]

This has already been brought up before and several examples were brought up in response, most notably the way Nolan used Joker. He took someone that shouldn't have been convincing at all and made him the main focus of everything. Every single character in "The Dark Knight" was some how effected by the Joker's plots and schemes. He took Gotham City and shook it upside down.

Selena Kyle on the other hand I could see as being a highly skilled cat burglar who likes stealing high profile museum pieces or jewelry along with other material things for her own specific agenda. She could be a socialite by day with a cosmetics company that is looking to make some kind of deal with Wayne Enterprises to boost her profile (thus this is how she meets Bruce) with a checkered past that is linked to the Falcone's and Gotham (i.e. Year One and then Catwoman in Rome). Nolan will find a way to make her work.

[Kegg]

Garak wrote:

---

I don't know how you can pull off Catwoman in this "Nolan grittydark universe".

Catwoman is probably the easiest Batman villain to do in this style of Batman story. Certainly far eaiser then Ra's al-Ghul.

Why?

'Cause she's got no superpowers. When it comes down to it she's like Batman only a woman, a different choice of animal motif, and (typically) less scruples as a vigilante - the last point giving you your point of ethical contrast. Catwoman is the avenger Batman can't be. Cue ideological debates where Batman growls at at a woman in a catsuit and that's a wrap.

Definitely easier then going:
'Yes, let's do a down-to-earth Batman movie -'
'Hooray!'
'- Where he fights an immortal Arab!'
'Uh...'

[Kestrel]

Trent Roman wrote:

---

That's exactly what it is. In 2005, the FBI under the directions of Bush regime labeled so-called "ecoterrorism" and the animal-rights movement "the No. 1 domestic terrorism threat" in the country. So, by this logic, hooligans like E.L.F. are a greater threat than the heavily armed, violently insular and usually supremacist (white-, Christian-, or both) organizations that riddle the country, have a declared goal of apocalyptic warfare, and have spawned mass-murderers like Timothy McVeigh. They're also a greater threat than Americans who have been radicalized to the cause of Islamic fundamentalists and seek to wage deadly jihad against their fellow citizens in imitation or alliance with organizations like Al-Qaeda, responsible for the slaughter of thousands, and have spawned mass-murderers like Major Hasan. To call such a statement an exagerration seems, itself, like a grotesque understatement. What's the reason behind this? To create the idea of an 'eco-terrorist' movement in juxtaposition with which legitimate environmentalist organizations are rendered suspect, and acts of civil disobediance rendered criminal, or leading to criminal activity; the creation of this 'eco-terrorist' discourse is how the FBI justified its now discredited schemes of domestic espionnage on organizations like Greenpeace and PETA, or placing environmental activists of no criminal background on terror watch lists. The 'eco-terrorism' you invoke of is a manufactured concept designed to suppress legitimate speech and action.

Not to step in the way of your raging wrath, but Bush and co's vast overstatement of a problem for clearly political means doesn't mean such a problem doesn't exist.

Kegg wrote:

---

Definitely easier then going:
'Yes, let's do a down-to-earth Batman movie -'
'Hooray!'
'- Where he fights an immortal Arab!'
'Uh...'

[Greg Cox]

Captaindemotion wrote:

---

^ The original casting choices were Viggo Mortensen (America/ Danish), Daniel Day-Lewis (English born, Irish passport holder) and then Neeson (Irish/UK citizenship). The character originally seemed to have a French name and wavering Irish-Enghlish accent Then there was the decoy Japanese Ra's. I don't think there was ever any intent to have him be Arabic.

On a practical level, casting an Arabic-looking actor as "Ducard" would have given away the whole "decoy Ra's al Ghul" twist. I suspect that casting a European actor as the real Ra's was more a case of deliberate misdirection than political correctness.

[Myasishchev]

Greg Cox wrote:

---

On a practical level, casting an Arabic-looking actor as "Ducard" would have given away the whole "decoy Ra's al Ghul" twist. I suspect that casting a European actor as the real Ra's was more a case of deliberate misdirection than political correctness.

Why? Because Arabs with French names are unheard of?

Anyway, casting Liam Neeson was far more of a meta giveaway than his ethnicity. Neeson is an A-lister, or not far from it. It seemed unlikely for him to wind up Christian Bale's first-act sidekick.