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Old November 10 2010, 05:21 PM   #46
Kegg
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

I neither know nor care if the notes the Brian Herbert books are based off are legitimate.

I'm sure it'd be quite possible to write really excellent books set in the Dune universe that ignore or contradict Frank Herbert's notes, for example. I've never actually read one of the Brian Herbert books but I've never been given reason to believe that'd be a worthwhile thing to do.

Besides I only really liked the first four books anyhow (sorry, Chapterhouse and Heretics fans, but all I even remember of those titles is a blur of disappointment); so I've never been that plussed to pick 'em up.

The irony is I probably would be interested in buying an encyclopedia based on Herbert's notes... or I would have in the pre-wikipedia age. I remember the good old days of basing all my Star Trek canon arguments in this very forum on fumbling through the Okuda's Star Trek Encyclopedia (and I bought the unbelievably lazily updated second edition where they just slapped some additional stuff at the end.) Memories...
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Old November 10 2010, 06:52 PM   #47
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

I think it's important because Pinky and the Brain have claimed that Omnius and their depiction of how the Butlerian Jihad went down were part of Frank's notes. I dunno, I suppose it's one of those cases where I was disappointed after having built up my own version of events and them not matching any where near it lol.
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Old November 10 2010, 07:27 PM   #48
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

i read The Winds of Dune and it was alright. overall though it was mostly just unnecessary. i'm reading Hunters of Dune currently and the first fifty pages or so are just giving you information that one would already know having the previous two books.
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Old November 10 2010, 07:40 PM   #49
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

I've actually quite enjoyed "Paul of Dune" and "Winds of Dune" and was looking forward to "Leto of Dune" (which would have been about The God Emperor's early years and something I've always been interested in) until they canceled the book for some reason. They're instead writing a new trilogy focusing on the formation of the three schools within the Imperium. The first one is called "The Sisterhood of Dune" and depicts the formation and early years of the Bene Gesserit, which they kind of already touched on in the "Butlerian Jihad".
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Old November 10 2010, 10:22 PM   #50
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Seriously, you found the "interquels" worthwhile? Cause I'm truly hoping to be done with these guys' work after Dune 7, especially after the news that more prequels are forthcoming. I guess on the one hand it makes sense for the Dune Universe to have its own EU, as long as we realize that these don't count as much, despite the authors' claims to the contrary. I have never read a Star Trek or Star Wars novel, but I've heard most are shite, yet people read them religiously as well.
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Old November 10 2010, 10:30 PM   #51
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

O'Dib wrote: View Post
Seriously, you found the "interquels" worthwhile? Cause I'm truly hoping to be done with these guys' work after Dune 7, especially after the news that more prequels are forthcoming. I guess on the one hand it makes sense for the Dune Universe to have its own EU, as long as we realize that these don't count as much, despite the authors' claims to the contrary. I have never read a Star Trek or Star Wars novel, but I've heard most are shite, yet people read them religiously as well.

Not to change course to much in this thread: but some of the early Star Trek novels from the 80s were quite good.

As far as the more recent output, don't know....
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Old November 11 2010, 02:52 AM   #52
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

O'Dib wrote: View Post
Seriously, you found the "interquels" worthwhile? Cause I'm truly hoping to be done with these guys' work after Dune 7, especially after the news that more prequels are forthcoming. I guess on the one hand it makes sense for the Dune Universe to have its own EU, as long as we realize that these don't count as much, despite the authors' claims to the contrary. I have never read a Star Trek or Star Wars novel, but I've heard most are shite, yet people read them religiously as well.
Different opinions happen. Don't feel forced to read "shite."
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Old November 11 2010, 03:10 AM   #53
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

One of my main problems with Pinky and the Brain's work is that they decided to not write in Frank's style which made their work...different. The "House" books were decent with the exception of the common flaws Dune fans like to point out in them. What really deterred me was I mentioned before was "The Butlerian Jihad". Just ugh. It was like they were trying to write their own version of The Matrix or had watched the "The Matrix" trilogy before writing them.
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Old November 11 2010, 03:13 AM   #54
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

O'Dib wrote: View Post
I have never read a Star Trek or Star Wars novel, but I've heard most are shite, yet people read them religiously as well.
You've heard wrong. Both series have a mix from the terrible to the extraordinary. By and large they're worthwhile; and the great thing about the internet is that it's easy to navigate around the worst of them.

What I always liked about the Star Wars line was the sheer audacity of it; they don't just stick to tucking stories in and around the movies, although there is some of that; they take it well beyond as well. Star Wars without the novels is like Star Trek without any of the 24th century stuff. It's that big a difference in scope and amount of story.

In the last decade or so, the Star Trek line has also embraced the concept of pushing the story forward beyond the TV and movies, and established a distinctive continuity into which you can fit most, though not all, recent Trek novels. (The Trek line is far more willing than the Wars line to publish standalones outside of the greater continuity.) I like this approach quite a bit, although as you say, it does lend itself to semi-obsessive buying so you don't miss anything.

[/hijack]
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Old November 11 2010, 03:27 AM   #55
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
One of my main problems with Pinky and the Brain's work is that they decided to not write in Frank's style which made their work...different. The "House" books were decent with the exception of the common flaws Dune fans like to point out in them. What really deterred me was I mentioned before was "The Butlerian Jihad". Just ugh. It was like they were trying to write their own version of The Matrix or had watched the "The Matrix" trilogy before writing them.
I agree as well. Pinky and the Brain's writing style just isn't even close to Frank Herbert. He was far better and more cerebral.

I don't think you'd ever really read about people being stomped or squished or how their brains splattered after doing so from Herbert Sr. Once I read that (think it was in Butlerian Jihad, maybe?), I gave up.

Cheers,
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Old November 11 2010, 03:28 AM   #56
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Just watched disc 1 of the 2000 miniseries. Looking forward to seeing the rest. Not a bad approach, aside from the fact that the acting is utterly embarrassing (seriously, I had no idea that William Hurt could be that bad). It's unfortunate that we won't see a feature film any time soon, though. The story world and characters would do well with a high-end production and a suitably adapted script.
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Old November 11 2010, 04:19 AM   #57
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I've actually quite enjoyed "Paul of Dune" and "Winds of Dune" and was looking forward to "Leto of Dune" (which would have been about The God Emperor's early years and something I've always been interested in) until they canceled the book for some reason. They're instead writing a new trilogy focusing on the formation of the three schools within the Imperium. The first one is called "The Sisterhood of Dune" and depicts the formation and early years of the Bene Gesserit, which they kind of already touched on in the "Butlerian Jihad".
That kind of sucks. I too was looking forward to Leto of Dune. Still, these origin story novels might be enjoyable. While these interquels and prequels may be unnecessary given the "official" story of Dune has been told in completion, I find the Dune universe is so fun to revisit, and yes I do enjoy Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's books.

Is there a timeframe for when this Sisterhood of Dune will be released? I'm guessing no earlier than fall 2011. Any word on what the other origins are that are going to be covered in this trilogy? I'm guessing the Guild is also a given, but what else? Mentats perhaps?
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Old November 11 2010, 04:27 AM   #58
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

No release date has been given yet for "Sisterhood of Dune". "Leto of Dune" was supposed to come out next fall I believe which would have given them about two years to write it after "Winds of Dune" came out last year. The other two books are indeed about the Mentats and Spacing Guild. I believe the Suk School and Swordmasters of Ginaz are supposed to be touched upon as well. I really am confused with why they're returning to this period which was dealt with...albeit briefly. Maybe they thought "Leto" was too much for them lol.
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Old November 11 2010, 06:32 AM   #59
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Colonel Midnight wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
One of my main problems with Pinky and the Brain's work is that they decided to not write in Frank's style which made their work...different. The "House" books were decent with the exception of the common flaws Dune fans like to point out in them. What really deterred me was I mentioned before was "The Butlerian Jihad". Just ugh. It was like they were trying to write their own version of The Matrix or had watched the "The Matrix" trilogy before writing them.
I agree as well. Pinky and the Brain's writing style just isn't even close to Frank Herbert. He was far better and more cerebral.

I don't think you'd ever really read about people being stomped or squished or how their brains splattered after doing so from Herbert Sr. Once I read that (think it was in Butlerian Jihad, maybe?), I gave up.

Cheers,
-CM-
Maybe it's just me but the way I tend to characterise the difference between Frank's style and Brian & Kevin's style (what's with this Pinky & the Brain comparison?) is that the latter focus on what characters are doing, treating the story as a methodical and detailed chronology of events. The former on the other hand wrote more about what the character is thinking. Frank would happily skip right past a huge action scene but will spend a whole chapter on considering the significance of a butterfly in the desert.

Indeed some of the best scenes in the book are just about two characters talking to one another. A favourite of mine (one that so far both adaptations has ignored) is the conversation between Thufir and a Fremen (I forget his name) during the initial assault on Arrakeen. Everything the mentats says is carefully considered as he realises that he's not on the same wavelengh as the Fremen and you get to really understand what the Fremen are really about just from this one interaction.

I suppose it all really comes down to characterization. Brian & Kevin can't seem to get inside a character's head, or if they can they choose not to show it.
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Old November 11 2010, 06:47 AM   #60
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Re: Dune Production is In Trouble

Pinky and the Brain is Dune fan's nickname for the two of them. Pinky of course is Kevin and Brian is the Brain.
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