Rank of Doctor

shauncroucher · October 27 2010, 01:11 PM

Hi,

As the EMH does not wear any insignia, do we know what rank he is? Is it the same as TNG (Commander)?

Cheers
Shaun

C_Miller · October 27 2010, 01:19 PM

He doesn't have a rank. When the ship set off, he wasn't even a member of the crew, just to be used in the case of Emergency.

shauncroucher · October 27 2010, 01:43 PM

C_Miller wrote:

He doesn't have a rank. When the ship set off, he wasn't even a member of the crew, just to be used in the case of Emergency.

So who would make the call if there was suspicion that the captain was medically unfit, also he becomes so much more than just the Emh over time?

Shaun

Sam_I_Am · October 27 2010, 01:52 PM

The Doctor still retains the authority to relieve the captain (or any other crew member) of duty if they are medically unfit. This is the same power shared by other medical officers regardless of rank (Commander* Crusher can relieve Captain Picard, Lieutenant Commander* McCoy can relieve Captain Kirk). For an example of the Doctor (EMH) trying to relieve Captain Janeway, see the episode "Year Of Hell".

* I know Doctors aren't usually referred to by rank, but I'm just demonstrating how their rank doesn't affect their power to relieve higher-ranked officers.

BillJ · October 27 2010, 03:51 PM

Regardless of rank, a ships' doctor exists outside of the chain of command. I always thought a civilian doctor would be an interesting addition to one of the series. Deep Space Nine would have been a perfect fit if the series had taken place on Bajor as originally envisioned.

milo bloom · October 27 2010, 04:30 PM

BillJ wrote:

Regardless of rank, a ships' doctor exists outside of the chain of command. I always thought a civilian doctor would be an interesting addition to one of the series. Deep Space Nine would have been a perfect fit if the series had taken place on Bajor as originally envisioned.

I know folks try to block it from their memories, but Phlox was a civilian on Enterprise. Not sure if the issue of him having to relieve Archer of command ever came up, I missed a lot of the second and third seasons.

BillJ · October 27 2010, 04:35 PM

Good point. But like Enterprise, nothing really made him feel different from the other Starfleet doctors we've seen in the past.

Anwar · October 27 2010, 05:02 PM

Would there really BE a big difference between a Fleet doctor and a civilian one? I mean, the way McCoy acted in TOS you'd think he WAS a civilian Doctor and not part of Starfleet.

Chaos Descending · October 27 2010, 05:44 PM

Anwar wrote:

Would there really BE a big difference between a Fleet doctor and a civilian one? I mean, the way McCoy acted in TOS you'd think he WAS a civilian Doctor and not part of Starfleet.

A lot of military doctors act that way.

Anwar · October 27 2010, 06:25 PM

That's what I mean, what would the real difference be between a civilian Doctor and McCoy's attitude?

CobraCommander · October 28 2010, 03:33 AM

I felt that by Season 6, Janeway should have given the doctor an officer's commission. Without being a commisioned officer, he had few rights over how the lowliest crew member could treat him and talk behind his back. By keeping him stripped of rank, she was acknowledging that he wasn't a sentient being and a full member of her crew. Cobra

Guy Gardener · October 28 2010, 03:54 AM

That would have made the rank of the other officers evermore meaningless since after she had alreay gaven "imaginary" provisional rank to a bunch of dirty terrorists they were forced to impersonate respect for.

Does Morale fall under the medical remit?

that would have given Neelix much much broader authority than he ever chose to use, that ipso facto in the pursuit of morale the hedgehog could even issue binding and legal orders to the Captain.

Tommy and Kes could fling about medical orders too?

How much "McCoy" is Shatner channeling in his Shit my dad Says performance since he is playing a retired navy doctor.

FormerLurker · October 28 2010, 08:38 AM

Doctor isn't a rank, it's a medical degree. :P

Guy Gardener · October 28 2010, 08:55 AM

CMO is a transitory rank held by the Boss Doctor however.

It's somewhat like what Potter gave Hawkeye to boss around Charles in the Operating theatre because his rank did not reflect his skill as a meatball surgeon.

O'Brien is Chief of Operations on DS9 and Chief Engineer on the Defiant which means that he can boss around admirals if they get in the way of his speciality with crap orders but one step to his left and a third year caet can order miles to do 40 push ups.

The_Baron · October 28 2010, 09:55 AM

The thing is, Crusher, Bashir, McCoy and the EMH are Doctors first, Starfleet second.

Rank is unimportant, whether they're a civilian, a cadet or an admiral, at the end of the day they're responsible for as many lives as the Commanding officer is, they hold the responsibility as to whether someone lives or dies and so in certain circumstances they get the final say regardless as to who they're talking to.

I believe the Cheif Medical Officer is the only member of crew of a ship, base, or whatever who can issue orders to anyone and can court-martial their CO if they disobey said orders regardless of how many pips they have on their own collar.

October 27 2010, 01:11 PM	#1
shauncroucher Ensign Location: Nr London, UK	Rank of Doctor Hi, As the EMH does not wear any insignia, do we know what rank he is? Is it the same as TNG (Commander)? Cheers Shaun __________________ "There...are...four...lights!"

October 27 2010, 01:19 PM	#2
C_Miller Captain Location: Geneseo, NY	Re: Rank of Doctor He doesn't have a rank. When the ship set off, he wasn't even a member of the crew, just to be used in the case of Emergency. __________________ Are You a writer and a comic book fan? Join the fledgling Ultimate DC Unified Fanfiction Community Ultimate DC Universe Tons of Titles still available!

October 27 2010, 01:52 PM	#4
Sam_I_Am Captain Location: Paris XVII, France	Re: Rank of Doctor The Doctor still retains the authority to relieve the captain (or any other crew member) of duty if they are medically unfit. This is the same power shared by other medical officers regardless of rank (Commander* Crusher can relieve Captain Picard, Lieutenant Commander* McCoy can relieve Captain Kirk). For an example of the Doctor (EMH) trying to relieve Captain Janeway, see the episode "Year Of Hell". * I know Doctors aren't usually referred to by rank, but I'm just demonstrating how their rank doesn't affect their power to relieve higher-ranked officers. __________________ "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." ~ George H.W. Bush

October 27 2010, 03:51 PM	#5
BillJ Vice Admiral Location: In the 23rd Century...	Re: Rank of Doctor Regardless of rank, a ships' doctor exists outside of the chain of command. I always thought a civilian doctor would be an interesting addition to one of the series. Deep Space Nine would have been a perfect fit if the series had taken place on Bajor as originally envisioned. __________________ "You know. 1966? Seventy-nine episodes, about thirty good ones." - Phillip Fry describing Star Trek, Futurama

October 27 2010, 04:35 PM	#7
BillJ Vice Admiral Location: In the 23rd Century...	Re: Rank of Doctor Good point. But like Enterprise, nothing really made him feel different from the other Starfleet doctors we've seen in the past. __________________ "You know. 1966? Seventy-nine episodes, about thirty good ones." - Phillip Fry describing Star Trek, Futurama

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October 27 2010, 05:02 PM	#8
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Rank of Doctor Would there really BE a big difference between a Fleet doctor and a civilian one? I mean, the way McCoy acted in TOS you'd think he WAS a civilian Doctor and not part of Starfleet.

October 27 2010, 06:25 PM	#10
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Rank of Doctor That's what I mean, what would the real difference be between a civilian Doctor and McCoy's attitude?

October 28 2010, 03:33 AM	#11
CobraCommander Lieutenant Commander Location: Nor Cal	Re: Rank of Doctor I felt that by Season 6, Janeway should have given the doctor an officer's commission. Without being a commisioned officer, he had few rights over how the lowliest crew member could treat him and talk behind his back. By keeping him stripped of rank, she was acknowledging that he wasn't a sentient being and a full member of her crew. Cobra

October 28 2010, 03:54 AM	#12
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Rank of Doctor That would have made the rank of the other officers evermore meaningless since after she had alreay gaven "imaginary" provisional rank to a bunch of dirty terrorists they were forced to impersonate respect for. Does Morale fall under the medical remit? that would have given Neelix much much broader authority than he ever chose to use, that ipso facto in the pursuit of morale the hedgehog could even issue binding and legal orders to the Captain. Tommy and Kes could fling about medical orders too? How much "McCoy" is Shatner channeling in his Shit my dad Says performance since he is playing a retired navy doctor. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

October 28 2010, 08:38 AM	#13
FormerLurker Captain	Re: Rank of Doctor Doctor isn't a rank, it's a medical degree. :P

October 28 2010, 08:55 AM	#14
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Rank of Doctor CMO is a transitory rank held by the Boss Doctor however. It's somewhat like what Potter gave Hawkeye to boss around Charles in the Operating theatre because his rank did not reflect his skill as a meatball surgeon. O'Brien is Chief of Operations on DS9 and Chief Engineer on the Defiant which means that he can boss around admirals if they get in the way of his speciality with crap orders but one step to his left and a third year caet can order miles to do 40 push ups. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

October 28 2010, 09:55 AM	#15
The_Baron Commander Location: Bournemouth, UK	Re: Rank of Doctor The thing is, Crusher, Bashir, McCoy and the EMH are Doctors first, Starfleet second. Rank is unimportant, whether they're a civilian, a cadet or an admiral, at the end of the day they're responsible for as many lives as the Commanding officer is, they hold the responsibility as to whether someone lives or dies and so in certain circumstances they get the final say regardless as to who they're talking to. I believe the Cheif Medical Officer is the only member of crew of a ship, base, or whatever who can issue orders to anyone and can court-martial their CO if they disobey said orders regardless of how many pips they have on their own collar.