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Old December 7 2010, 02:54 PM   #571
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post

My scout platoon of six Brads and thirty soldiers could thus kill 22,200 walkers using just our vehicle combat loads. Plus another 6,300 from our personal rifle loads. All done while totally impervious to attack.

Maybe Hollywood just doesn't understand what sort of firepower the military has at their disposal, but it is plot holes like that, that make watching the show more and more annoying to me.
It is politically incorrect to obliterate more than 50 undead at one time - even in a post apocalyptic landscape

Great finale! I really liked the CDC guy's wife's brain scan scene. Wow... creepy.
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Old December 7 2010, 03:59 PM   #572
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
I just finished watching the last episode, and very much enjoyed the series as a whole.

But I am more and more having a problem with one of the core ideas of the premise. Namely that the group of functioning retards that are our heroes could survive as long as they while any governmental forces or other organized forces(so far as we know) have been wiped out.

Due to the families in the show being largely intact, it seems a reasonable assumption to assume that whatever causes "zombie-ism" is not air-born. You get scratched or bit by a walker and you turn into one, simple enough.

So how the heck did the world fall apart from that?

I served in the United States Army in Iraq, I had bad guys shoot at me, try to blow me up and mortar me all day long. There is no way a bunch of brainless shambling walkers are going to destroy any country with a modern military. It just ain't gonna happen.

Let's just use Atlanta as an example. Everyone in it is infected. Several million walkers. Our engineers could throw a ring of hesco barriers around the city in a day or two, topped with concertina wire with a scoped rifleman posted every quarter mile or so. Every few miles we set up a kill zone. One Bradley fighting vehicle equipped with speakers playing music to suck in the walkers. Our standard loadout in a Bradley(in the Armored Cav anyways) was 1500 rounds for the 25mm, and 2200 7.62mm for the co-ax. With the optics on the Brad every shot can be a dead on kill shot. And we can sit in place for three days or so running on just our internal fuel.

My scout platoon of six Brads and thirty soldiers could thus kill 22,200 walkers using just our vehicle combat loads. Plus another 6,300 from our personal rifle loads. All done while totally impervious to attack.

Maybe Hollywood just doesn't understand what sort of firepower the military has at their disposal, but it is plot holes like that, that make watching the show more and more annoying to me.
I never served as you did (and thank you for your service), but I've had similar thoughts to your statements here.

I think World War Z plays up the scenario that the US lacked the political will to do anything in terms of a measured, reasoned military response because they were in full-on 'deny' mode well into the zombie crisis.

But for what you said though...how, besides simply running out of ammo, could the military be overrun? Do zombies have any other tactics besides 'keep coming'? I imagine once they gathered in a group and came down the streets (attracted by the noise) they could simply be bombed. How the hell could a helicopter be brought down?
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Old December 7 2010, 04:11 PM   #573
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

I think World War Z plays up the scenario that the US lacked the political will to do anything in terms of a measured, reasoned military response because they were in full-on 'deny' mode well into the zombie crisis.
In that chapter US military invited the press and wanted to do a lot of flashy, noisy but completely ineffective stuff, like trying to kill the zombies with machine guns, bomb them and such. The problem was that in order to kill the zombie, you have to destroy its brain, so all the military effort was ineffective. In the end the military was simply overwhelmed by several million zombies that came from New York. In one of the later chapters US military developed a much more efficient tactic, similar to what Caliburn24described, and it helped.
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Old December 7 2010, 04:25 PM   #574
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

the_wildcard wrote: View Post
I really hope next season we find out a little bit more about how the rest of the world is doing....
You might want to stifle that hope a bit, so you don't end up disappointed. I suppose the show could take a detour that would give some answers as to the status of the world, but the comics have never been concerned with such a question, so I wouldn't necessarily expect one. Jenner's remark in his log about how long it had been since the epidemic went global is probably the only indication of larger world issues we'll receive for some time.
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Old December 7 2010, 04:30 PM   #575
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post

Let's just use Atlanta as an example. Everyone in it is infected. Several million walkers. Our engineers could throw a ring of hesco barriers around the city in a day or two,
That's the problem. They didn't HAVE a day or two.
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Old December 7 2010, 05:07 PM   #576
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Anyone here watching the walking dead (on AMC) and the High School of the Dead (anime network)?

I have been watching High School of the dead and it plays out a LOT like the Walking Dead, I tend to call it "The Walking Dead, Anime Edition".
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Old December 7 2010, 05:12 PM   #577
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Due to the families in the show being largely intact, it seems a reasonable assumption to assume that whatever causes "zombie-ism" is not air-born. You get scratched or bit by a walker and you turn into one, simple enough.
Zombies don't turn you into zombies, dying does. Zombies simply make you sick and die. Everyone who dies from any reason at all will becomes a zombie.

Imagine when this "outbreak" started and everyone in every morgue, every fresh grave, all at once rose from the dead and started biting people before people could figure out that what was going on.
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Old December 7 2010, 05:30 PM   #578
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Shurik wrote: View Post
I think World War Z plays up the scenario that the US lacked the political will to do anything in terms of a measured, reasoned military response because they were in full-on 'deny' mode well into the zombie crisis.
In that chapter US military invited the press and wanted to do a lot of flashy, noisy but completely ineffective stuff, like trying to kill the zombies with machine guns, bomb them and such. The problem was that in order to kill the zombie, you have to destroy its brain, so all the military effort was ineffective. In the end the military was simply overwhelmed by several million zombies that came from New York. In one of the later chapters US military developed a much more efficient tactic, similar to what Caliburn24described, and it helped.
That, and the book implies that the US military was extremely effective, at first. At Yonkers, they did kill off a significant number of zombies, but the sheer number of them pushing out of NYC proved to be insurmountable, especially when combined with issue like military tech often being designed to wound, not kill, and infantrymen being trained to go for ineffective torso-shots, not headshots.

Yeah, it does require some suspension of disbelief that the entire military got overrun, but there are plausible ways it could happen. There's also the possibility that the military beat a strategic retreat, a la The Redeker Plan.

Also, I apologize for constantly referencing World War Z, but it's such a similar-sounding scenario that it's hard not to, sometimes.
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Old December 7 2010, 05:41 PM   #579
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Due to the families in the show being largely intact, it seems a reasonable assumption to assume that whatever causes "zombie-ism" is not air-born. You get scratched or bit by a walker and you turn into one, simple enough.
Zombies don't turn you into zombies, dying does. Zombies simply make you sick and die. Everyone who dies from any reason at all will becomes a zombie.

Imagine when this "outbreak" started and everyone in every morgue, every fresh grave, all at once rose from the dead and started biting people before people could figure out that what was going on.
I don't think that you would be able to rise after being embalmed. As well the zombies aren't stronger than a normal person and a single one wouldn't be able to break out of a metal coffin and get though six feet of Earth.
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Old December 7 2010, 06:13 PM   #580
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

I always found the idea of the zombie plague spreading too fast for a reasoned military response to be plausible. I think it's reasonable to assume that you would have at least 48 hours of confusion wherein a large portion of your population is taken down/infected.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, I can see several days of debate and arguing about what to do, with a lot of people arguing for following of CDC quarantine policies and for the search for a cure first before authorizing military action against sick american citizens. I am sure there would be borders and checkpoints set up, with soldiers being authorized to engage if engaged first, but no offensive actions ordered....then it's too late.
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Old December 7 2010, 06:24 PM   #581
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

The Fatman wrote: View Post
I always found the idea of the zombie plague spreading too fast for a reasoned military response to be plausible. I think it's reasonable to assume that you would have at least 48 hours of confusion wherein a large portion of your population is taken down/infected.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, I can see several days of debate and arguing about what to do, with a lot of people arguing for following of CDC quarantine policies and for the search for a cure first before authorizing military action against sick american citizens. I am sure there would be borders and checkpoints set up, with soldiers being authorized to engage if engaged first, but no offensive actions ordered....then it's too late.

Yeah, in the case of a Zombie outbreak our beuacracy would be our greatest weakness.

If a Zombie outbreak happened the best place to be in my opinion would be small town america. Somewhere in Kansas, plenty of flat land around the house to see what is stumbling your way, farm machinery to "plow down" the zombie hordes and plenty of food/fuel in the form of corn in a grain bin, and water that can be easily pumped via a solar powered cattle well (they do exist) or windmill.
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Old December 7 2010, 06:31 PM   #582
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

The year wait is gonna suck. What an awesome series so far. I guess this is basically the prologue.
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Old December 7 2010, 08:44 PM   #583
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Meredith wrote: View Post
The Fatman wrote: View Post
I always found the idea of the zombie plague spreading too fast for a reasoned military response to be plausible. I think it's reasonable to assume that you would have at least 48 hours of confusion wherein a large portion of your population is taken down/infected.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, I can see several days of debate and arguing about what to do, with a lot of people arguing for following of CDC quarantine policies and for the search for a cure first before authorizing military action against sick american citizens. I am sure there would be borders and checkpoints set up, with soldiers being authorized to engage if engaged first, but no offensive actions ordered....then it's too late.

Yeah, in the case of a Zombie outbreak our beuacracy would be our greatest weakness.

If a Zombie outbreak happened the best place to be in my opinion would be small town america. Somewhere in Kansas, plenty of flat land around the house to see what is stumbling your way, farm machinery to "plow down" the zombie hordes and plenty of food/fuel in the form of corn in a grain bin, and water that can be easily pumped via a solar powered cattle well (they do exist) or windmill.
Not to mention the explosive potential of the grain silo.
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Old December 7 2010, 09:08 PM   #584
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

The Fatman wrote: View Post
I always found the idea of the zombie plague spreading too fast for a reasoned military response to be plausible. I think it's reasonable to assume that you would have at least 48 hours of confusion wherein a large portion of your population is taken down/infected.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, I can see several days of debate and arguing about what to do, with a lot of people arguing for following of CDC quarantine policies and for the search for a cure first before authorizing military action against sick american citizens. I am sure there would be borders and checkpoints set up, with soldiers being authorized to engage if engaged first, but no offensive actions ordered....then it's too late.
Part of the other problem, i think, will be conclicted interests of people with guns. There will definitely be people who will refuse to kill children, even if they they have been bitten. They might even shoot their fellow soldiers.

Also, when things start breaking down, or get frantic cell phone calls, they will abandon their posts to save their loved ones.

Even though Shane wasn't infected, it looked like the military were even shooting law enforcement personnel, even the uninfected. Wanna bet that many would fight back?

And while that in-fighting is goign on, the non-military and generally confused will be vulnerable to death.

And in the midst of all that, what communication is still available?
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Old December 7 2010, 09:12 PM   #585
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Re: AMC's The Walking Dead Season 1 Discussion & Spoilers

Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post
Even though Shane wasn't infected, it looked like the military were even shooting law enforcement personnel, even the uninfected.
True that. Though that makes me wonder why the soldier who peeked into Rick's room didn't just shoot Rick to be on the safe side.
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