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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: How would you rate Zero Sum Game?
Outstanding 38 22.22%
Above Average 78 45.61%
Average 45 26.32%
Below Average 8 4.68%
Poor 2 1.17%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 30 2011, 09:45 PM   #601
Enterprise1981
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
It's almost a minor foreshadowing of the triangle in ZSG....
That was the thing that had me sold more than any of the other Typhon Pact novels. I even joked that "Julian's Beards" would also be an appropriate title.

What really could have helped the narrative was more on how things continued to go south between his split with Ezri and her transfer to the Aventine. That's like a five year gap. The narrative does establish that he never bothered to contact Sarina in the interceding seven years, even to check up on a former patient. Why the heck not? Maybe he knew that when it comes to Sarina, these song lyrics seem to ring true.
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Old January 31 2011, 07:58 PM   #602
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Enterprise1981 wrote: View Post
^

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
It's almost a minor foreshadowing of the triangle in ZSG....
That was the thing that had me sold more than any of the other Typhon Pact novels.
Yep--in the pic, we have no clue as to what Ezri is thinking about the thing (the image is blurred). It's anybody's guess. Is she sadly sympathizing with Julian's struggle? Is she feeling a pang of regret, watching Julian fall for Sarina?

In the book...we see Ezri give some reactions, but we never--not even when it's told from her POV--get an idea about how she truly feels about Julian and Sarina.
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Old February 12 2011, 06:04 AM   #603
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I just got through the scenes where Bashir killed the engineers on the asteroid, and I really didn't see where it was as horrible as everyone was making it out to be. It was acknowledged as something that Bashir doesn't usually do, and we saw him come to the realization that this would be neccissary and that is really all I need to accept something like this. As for what he did this was a black ops sabotage/spy mission during a cold war, this is generally the kind of stuff that happens during these kinds of stories. I've read/watched alot of this stuff, so I guess it really wasn't that shocking to me.
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Old February 15 2011, 09:15 PM   #604
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

When the narrative mentions that Sisko never returned to active duty after his return from the Celestial Temple even though the events of RBoE had already happened, was that just a careless oversight on Mack's part. Or was it just part of making the point everybody else had come and gone (even most of the DS9-relaunch ensemble), but Julian Bashir was still stuck on DS9? On that note, I'm not sure he and Taran'atar were BFF's.
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Old February 15 2011, 10:35 PM   #605
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Enterprise1981 wrote: View Post
When the narrative mentions that Sisko never returned to active duty after his return from the Celestial Temple even though the events of RBoE had already happened, was that just a careless oversight on Mack's part. Or was it just part of making the point everybody else had come and gone (even most of the DS9-relaunch ensemble), but Julian Bashir was still stuck on DS9?
You misread that paragraph. On page 20 it states specifically that Sisko "never returned to active duty on the station." It left open the possibility that he served elsewhere.
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Old February 16 2011, 08:57 AM   #606
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

David Mack wrote: View Post
You misread that paragraph. On page 20 it states specifically that Sisko "never returned to active duty on the station." It left open the possibility that he served elsewhere.
Gotcha. I forgot that part until just now re-reading it.
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Old March 12 2011, 11:14 AM   #607
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Bit of a bump for this one, but I fininshed this two days, with mixed feelings. Although the book was certainly a fun read, and I enjoyed the insights in Breen society, Bashir and Sarina felt a bit flat to me. No real character development for Bashir, I was hoping there would be a more clear purpose for him at the end of this. And at times, he didn't really feel like Bashir to me. When compared to Abyss, another Bashir centered novel, he felt more like the Bashir from the series to me. I suppose that some years have passed since we last saw him in the novels, events in his life might have changed him somewhat.

The Aventine parts didn't really do it for me I'm afraid. Sofar, I'm not a big fan of Ezri in the novels. She seems a bit bitchy at times, cocky I suppose.

As for the last two pages.... I don't know.....




I really do want to ad though, that I am a big fan of David Mack's work. I loved Destiny, and I can't wait to begin Vanguard.
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Old March 13 2011, 12:32 PM   #608
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I agree with the above as mentioned before - Bashir just felt wrong to me in this novel. Obviously how we imagine the character is a very subjective thing - but this is not the Bashir i know.

Some posters have mentioned that its been a long time from the end of ds9 through to zero sum game, allowing for changes in Bashirs character. Well, i have got further along that distance now, currently reading Volume one of worlds of deep space nine, and i have yet to see anything to account for what as i see as this very sudden change in Bashirs morals and actions.

Maybe it is still to come, and maybe my perspective on Bashir is wrong, but thats how i see things anyway.
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Old March 13 2011, 07:27 PM   #609
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Sooner or later, Sarina will take the fall for one of Section 31's illegal operations and spend six months in jail. Then she and Julian will then move on as if nothing ever happened and they'll get married despite the Prophets' warning that he'll know only sorrow... I'm sorry, I'm confusing ZSG with RBoE.

David Mack's works do seem prone to cliffhanger endings (did sneak a peek at the end of the one Vanguard novel I have).



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Old February 17 2012, 01:15 AM   #610
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Another great read One of the best in the series.
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Old July 13 2012, 05:39 PM   #611
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Re: TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I've been somewhat reluctant to pick up the Typhon Pact novels given some of the negativity, but decided to take the plunge and started with Zero Sum Game.

Very, very good. I blasted through it in a couple of days, sneaking the odd chapter in one coffee breaks and the bus to work. I enjoyed this novel far more than I thought I would, so my hats off to Mr Mack.
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Old July 13 2012, 06:37 PM   #612
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Re: TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

USS Intrepid wrote: View Post
I've been somewhat reluctant to pick up the Typhon Pact novels given some of the negativity, but decided to take the plunge and started with Zero Sum Game.

Very, very good. I blasted through it in a couple of days, sneaking the odd chapter in one coffee breaks and the bus to work. I enjoyed this novel far more than I thought I would, so my hats off to Mr Mack.
I didn't particularly like Zero Sum Game (or Seize The Fire), I liked The Struggle Within novella and I loved Rough Beasts of Empire and Paths of Disharmony. I am a sucker for the political stuff though.

I'd be interested to seewhat you make of them.
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Old July 13 2012, 06:55 PM   #613
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Re: TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I really don't care much for the concept of the Typhon Pact, which seems to be very contradictory to how many of the member races behave, but I did like this novel.


Bashir isn't one of my favorite characters by any stretch, but you really do feel for him in this novel. The idea that he's the last one of the original crew remaining on the station, he's reporting to Ro of all people, which is sure to bring mixed feelings, and he's really finding himself at a standstill when all his friends and collegues and even his life have passed him by.

It's a small wonder he seeks a new direction and that his fascination with spying and intelligence, plays a role in that new direction.

I also liked how the Breen were really fleshed out in this book. Quite literally. We finally find out what's under those damn suits!

As for Bashir's actions? Sure it's unlike him. The whole situation is one he normally wouldn't place himself in. But for that situation, his actions were in the norm. Necessary.

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Old July 13 2012, 07:20 PM   #614
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Re: TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
USS Intrepid wrote: View Post
I've been somewhat reluctant to pick up the Typhon Pact novels given some of the negativity, but decided to take the plunge and started with Zero Sum Game.

Very, very good. I blasted through it in a couple of days, sneaking the odd chapter in one coffee breaks and the bus to work. I enjoyed this novel far more than I thought I would, so my hats off to Mr Mack.
I didn't particularly like Zero Sum Game (or Seize The Fire), I liked The Struggle Within novella and I loved Rough Beasts of Empire and Paths of Disharmony. I am a sucker for the political stuff though.

I'd be interested to seewhat you make of them.
I'm about 90 pages into Plagues of Night. Good stuff so far.

I didn't think ZSG was outstanding, but I did enjoy it a lot. I always liked Bashir, so this was a fairly compelling page-turner for me. I really felt for him.
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Old July 13 2012, 07:39 PM   #615
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Re: TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

R. Star wrote: View Post
I really don't care much for the concept of the Typhon Pact, which seems to be very contradictory to how many of the member races behave, but I did like this novel.
I just don't understand when people say this. First off, the races chosen for the Pact are mostly ones we know very little about in the first place, which was the whole reason for including them. So in many cases it's hard to make any assumptions about what they're capable of.

Second, and more to the point, the whole idea behind the Pact is that, yes, absolutely, it is a change from the way these powers used to do things, a change they've made in the wake of the horror and devastation of the Borg Invasion, which forced them to rethink a lot of things. The whole point of Destiny was to be a game-changer, to sweep away the old galactic order and leave everything altered. The Federation has had to change too, since it's no longer the secure, prosperous, dominant superpower it was before. It's had to enter a larger alliance with the Klingons, Ferengi, and Cardassians -- who have themselves changed considerably from the way they used to be.
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