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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old October 9 2010, 12:31 AM   #16
firecrackerrrr
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

Brit wrote: View Post
firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
I actually worked in PR for a major film production company in LA (still do on occasion but I'm a full time student again) and trust me, as much as I feel ya there, they do have a point. The unfortunate truth is that the majority of the viewers are/were male. For every lady that showed up at the comic con promos and events for ST there'd be 10 more guys. It sucks and I'm exactly like you. I spend insane amounts of time and money on Star Trek and BSG and scifi in general. But when they mention things like that in the press, they unfortunately only touch on the one majority in the statistic.
And this is the mindset I am talking about, ask yourself is the demographic male because only males like science fiction or is the demographic male because the producers of film and the publishers of books are not producing material that would attract female viewers.

It's easy to say that the male demographic is the majority because it has been for years but in truth just as many women would watch science fiction movies or read just as many books as males if the movies and books appealed to them. It's for sure that if you are only catering to a certain segment of the population that is the only one you will reach.

I personally think James Cameron's "Avatar" proved this point because it did appeal to a very broad demographic and not just the perceived audience for Science Fiction films. There is a growing group of female writers that are also proving that women read and enjoy Science Fiction novels too, but they had to go around the traditional publishing houses to be able to reach a female audience.

Brit
I completely agree with you. Trust me, I've been just as frustrated at certain issues when it comes to for example merchandising. I recently looked into getting a Voyager uniform (Janeway, specifically) - every single costume company that carries Star Trek uniforms has informed me that they only have the green/blue and yellow uniforms for women and the red one is only for males in L, XL and XXL sizes. I asked if they're simply out of stock and they said that it's always been this way for Voyager. I again asked if he's sure because, Voyager specifically has a female Captain and the guy on the phone laughed and said "Yup, I'm pretty positive. I've been selling these for years." - suffice to say I've decided to make my own kick-ass Janeway costume and it's coming along great and will probably end up looking better than the official merchandise (it's fitted to my proportions, it's better material and I can make adjustments)

It's frustrating as hell though. The data always showed that the majority of fans for the scifi shows we were doing PR for have been male. On one hand I don't understand why as I'm a fan of some of those shows and I'm female. On the other hand, I agree that something can be done to make it more appealing to women. But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it? I don't know if this will come off wrong, I hope not. But I like my Trek and my BSG and my Supernatural etc etc the way it is. Doesn't make me feel any better about the poor advertising, the merchandising and the obviousness of who the target audience is - a majority I happen to not belong to apparently. So while I understand the business aspect of it, I'll admit once in a while it bugs me too. :/
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Old October 9 2010, 01:34 AM   #17
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it?
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. I feel a little alarmed just trying to picture what sort of shows or movies might be produced under such a scheme. I'd think rather just put up with being in the overlooked demographic.
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Old October 9 2010, 01:44 AM   #18
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
I recently looked into getting a Voyager uniform (Janeway, specifically) - every single costume company that carries Star Trek uniforms has informed me that they only have the green/blue and yellow uniforms for women and the red one is only for males in L, XL and XXL sizes. I asked if they're simply out of stock and they said that it's always been this way for Voyager. I again asked if he's sure because, Voyager specifically has a female Captain and the guy on the phone laughed and said "Yup, I'm pretty positive. I've been selling these for years."


Now that ain't right.
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Old October 9 2010, 02:22 AM   #19
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it? I don't know if this will come off wrong, I hope not. But I like my Trek and my BSG and my Supernatural etc etc the way it is. Doesn't make me feel any better about the poor advertising, the merchandising and the obviousness of who the target audience is - a majority I happen to not belong to apparently. So while I understand the business aspect of it, I'll admit once in a while it bugs me too. :/
I think given the chance you might find things you would like, for instance I'd recommend anything written by Linnea Sinclair to women that like science fiction and I would highly recommend her "Games of Command." I have no idea if you would like to read her books or not, but I really liked them. It is after all a matter of taste. A lot of people like Rowena Cherry's books too but personally they just don't hold my attention. Not everyone likes everything, but I do think that you might find you liked some of the newer female written stuff.

LOL, I can however, tell you how to get around the uniform thing and that is find someone who sews and buy the patterns (they are available on the internet), I have the female Voyager ones and the Original Series ones (those I have had since before any of the movies were made.) I sew, so my daughter has a Captain Janeway uniform in the right colors.

Brit
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Old October 9 2010, 02:47 AM   #20
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

Brit wrote: View Post
firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it? I don't know if this will come off wrong, I hope not. But I like my Trek and my BSG and my Supernatural etc etc the way it is. Doesn't make me feel any better about the poor advertising, the merchandising and the obviousness of who the target audience is - a majority I happen to not belong to apparently. So while I understand the business aspect of it, I'll admit once in a while it bugs me too. :/
I think given the chance you might find things you would like, for instance I'd recommend anything written by Linnea Sinclair to women that like science fiction and I would highly recommend her "Games of Command." I have no idea if you would like to read her books or not, but I really liked them. It is after all a matter of taste. A lot of people like Rowena Cherry's books too but personally they just don't hold my attention. Not everyone likes everything, but I do think that you might find you liked some of the newer female written stuff.

LOL, I can however, tell you how to get around the uniform thing and that is find someone who sews and buy the patterns (they are available on the internet), I have the female Voyager ones and the Original Series ones (those I have had since before any of the movies were made.) I sew, so my daughter has a Captain Janeway uniform in the right colors.

Brit
Oh as I mentioned, I AM making my own uniform due to the fact that I couldn't find one I can order and/or buy in store. And I honestly think it looks amazing so far and that it'll turn out better than if I had bought an official one, had one existed. But judging by those other ones that ARE available, quality doesn't seem to be too important to them.

And thank you for the recommendations. I am an avid book reader and have been reading at least 5 books per month since childhood so I appreciate these. Might be good for me for a change since the last (at least) 10 books have been all about quantum mechanics. I've been looking forward to finding something good in scifi and fiction in general
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Old October 9 2010, 02:50 AM   #21
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

AMG wrote: View Post
firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it?
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. I feel a little alarmed just trying to picture what sort of shows or movies might be produced under such a scheme. I'd think rather just put up with being in the overlooked demographic.
Exactly. I'm all for female empowerment but if an average bimbo can't get into the shows I like, frankly...maybe it's for the better. It sounds so mean but I LIKE to be challenged and watch something that requires me to use a couple of brain cells. Nothing worse than when they dumb things down. Now if they could keep things exactly the way they are, and acknowledge us - the awesome minority - that'd be ideal.
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Old October 9 2010, 02:57 AM   #22
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

^ That would be ideal. Meanwhile, it is our responsibility to teach other women to use their brains, not to stop using ours so we will fit in.
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Old October 9 2010, 06:05 AM   #23
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

AMG wrote: View Post
^ That would be ideal. Meanwhile, it is our responsibility to teach other women to use their brains, not to stop using ours so we will fit in.
Perfectly put!
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Old October 9 2010, 01:55 PM   #24
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
AMG wrote: View Post
^ That would be ideal. Meanwhile, it is our responsibility to teach other women to use their brains, not to stop using ours so we will fit in.
Perfectly put!
^Yes, and I echo Perfectly put!
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Old October 9 2010, 02:46 PM   #25
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

^^^ Here here!

I cringe to think what crap they would come up with if they tried to appeal to women...
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Old October 9 2010, 03:29 PM   #26
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
AMG wrote: View Post
firecrackerrrr wrote: View Post
But I always wondered if they did make it more appealing to the average female, would I still be interested in it?
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't. I feel a little alarmed just trying to picture what sort of shows or movies might be produced under such a scheme. I'd think rather just put up with being in the overlooked demographic.
Exactly. I'm all for female empowerment but if an average bimbo can't get into the shows I like, frankly...maybe it's for the better.
But I think with the movie “Avatar” appealing to so many people, it is evidence that “the average bimbo” does get Science fiction when she figures out that people have been lying to her all along and that it isn’t too hard for her brain. That gets back to my original point being that if you keep telling women that science fiction is for boys and that romance is for girls then your concept of a “majority” is skewed.

What we need to do is to get both men and women to take off their blinders. I just read a new article on “The Galaxy Express” by Heather Massey

http://www.thegalaxyexpress.net/2010...n-romance.html

She is talking about readers that have blinders to certain genres of fiction. I thought the comment section was kind of interesting.

Natalie
I had blinders on when it came to romance novels. Raised on a steady diet of SciFi masters - Heinlein, Clark, Niven; and Fantasy - McCaffrey, Eddings, Cooper. I had thumbed my nose at romance novels most of my life, until I decided to see what the fuss was all about a few years ago. Ha, well, Anna Jacobs blew me away. I fell into the story, and opened my mind up to the whole genre.
Pauline
Wow, I had blinders about the SF part of SFR. I thought I wasn't smart enough to read SF or SFR. When I accidentally wrote one, I didn't think I had written one. LOL! So yeah, blinders.As I expand my reading in the genre I am delighted to find that it contains a lot of the adventure and action aspects that I'd been looking for in my romantic suspense (instead just getting more and more gore IMHO).
Robert
I'd never read a book written by a female author until about five years ago. Not even at school. It wasn't prejudiced--it just felt safer reading books I perceived as written FOR ME. Now I realize how blinkered that was. I read about half and half these days. The book that broke the duck was Alice Sebold's The Lovely Bones, and it was magical. A girlfriend had recommended it.
These people took their blinders off.

There is also a rather interesting article on "BitchMedia" that kind of addresses this problem.

http://bitchmagazine.org/post/pushba...ale-characters

Brit
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Old October 9 2010, 04:12 PM   #27
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

Just as a side note, but as much as Margaret Atwood is disliked amongst the scifi community because of her dismissive remarks about the genre, she has proven that writing a scifi novel (she may call it speculative fiction, but A Handmaid's Tale is just plain scifi at the end of the day) from a female perspective can be very successful - and not only in economical terms but also in terms of critical acclaim.
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Old October 9 2010, 05:00 PM   #28
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

Brit wrote: View Post
But I think with the movie “Avatar” appealing to so many people, it is evidence that “the average bimbo” does get Science fiction when she figures out that people have been lying to her all along and that it isn’t too hard for her brain.
See I liked Avatar enough. I found it to be an entertaining piece. I didn't think it was enormously intellectually stimulating. But I didn't dislike the story. That said, if every scifi story was written on that level, in that style, with that much simplicity I wouldn't be a happy camper suffice to say. And don't get me wrong. I really did like Avatar for what it was. My favourite type of movies will always be the ones that make me think and/or use my brain at least a bit (examples: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Prestige, Memento, Equilibrium, The Fountain, Inception, The Seventh Seal, Usual Suspects, Cube, Butterfly Effect, Donnie Darko, Revolver, A Clockwork Orange, 1984 (though I enjoyed the book more), The Shawshank Redemption, 12 Monkeys, Mulholland Drive, Minority Report, Pi, A Beautiful Mind, Requiem for a Dream, Brazil, Blade Runner (though the book - Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep by Philip K. Dick - is infinitely better), Road to Perdition etc etc you get the idea....).

I really did enjoy Avatar but I enjoyed it for the simplicity and I enjoyed the RealD effects (though I wish none of the other movies followed with that realD bull). I can't say any part of the plot in that movie was a challenge in any way though.
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Old October 9 2010, 05:14 PM   #29
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

vas2009 wrote: View Post
^^^ Here here!

I cringe to think what crap they would come up with if they tried to appeal to women...
Oh, but think of the marketing oppertunities!

"Hi, I'm Kathryn Janeway, and as a single woman alone in the Delta Quadrant I need my hair looking it's finest..."

Also:

Janeway bun tighteners
Janeway's Nebula Coffee
Janeway Action Vest
Janeway i-Pad: With storage space for only one file so you need a whole stack of them to get anything done


They missed the boat.
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Old October 9 2010, 05:33 PM   #30
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Re: Why doesn't the scifi community worry about me?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
vas2009 wrote: View Post
^^^ Here here!

I cringe to think what crap they would come up with if they tried to appeal to women...
Oh, but think of the marketing oppertunities!

"Hi, I'm Kathryn Janeway, and as a single woman alone in the Delta Quadrant I need my hair looking it's finest..."

Also:

Janeway bun tighteners
Janeway's Nebula Coffee
Janeway Action Vest
Janeway i-Pad: With storage space for only one file so you need a whole stack of them to get anything done


They missed the boat.
Or . . . I dunno . . . Janeway UNIFORMS, maybe?

But as long as we're making comical suggestions:
A friend of mine used to say that she wanted to invent Underoos for grown up women. Seven of Nine and Agent Scully were at the top of the list. I agreed that having Seven of Nine underoos hidden beneath my suit would certainly give me an extra edge of confidence on down days.
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