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Old October 7 2010, 07:06 PM   #76
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Playing football in the back yard is...equivalent to writing an original science fiction story.
I've done both. It's not.

Trust me, as long as we can seriously entertain conversations like this among ourselves the rest of the world will not run out of material for mocking trekkies.
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Old October 7 2010, 07:15 PM   #77
ProtoAvatar
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Dennis wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Playing football in the back yard is...equivalent to writing an original science fiction story.
I've done both. It's not.
You think so because writing an original story is a lot harder than playing football in the back yard. Or maybe because one is a physical activity and the other, an intellectual activity.

This doesn't change the fact that from a 'fan behaviour POV' they are highly comparable.

Trust me, as long as we can seriously entertain conversations like this among ourselves the rest of the world will not run out of material for mocking trekkies.
So - you think there's no comparison between being a sports fan and a trek fan?
I disagree - they're more or less the same thing.
And (as already mentioned), much like trek, sport also has its nutty fans (whose hobby, apparently, is starting street riots, etc).
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Old October 7 2010, 07:32 PM   #78
Alex1939
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Kreacher wrote: View Post

When I became assistant executive director of the agency I worked for, I hung a UFP flag in my new office. The executive director seriously questioned whether it was appropriate -- what affect would it have on my image as a leader of the organization? This was the same person who showed up every Friday in baseball season in an Orioles shirt, and every Friday in football season in a Ravens shirt!

You think wearing an Orioles shirt is the same as hanging up a UFP flag in your office?

I would think you were a weirdo too, sorry. I mean, where do you draw the line? Can I post Zena and Hercules posters around my office, would that be appropriate for my business??




Two quick things about sports versus Star Trek (a lot already mentioned)

1) Think 80,000 Star Trek fans would show up in 16 cities for 20 consecutive weeks to watch live performances of new Star Trek? No.

2) Professional sports are a community thing. A professional team is a major revenue producer for a city and surrounding community. Star Trek is not.
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Old October 7 2010, 07:39 PM   #79
ProtoAvatar
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Two quick things about sports versus Star Trek (a lot already mentioned)

1) Think 80,000 Star Trek fans would show up in 16 cities for 20 consecutive weeks to watch live performances of new Star Trek? No.

2) Professional sports are a community thing. A professional team is a major revenue producer for a city and surrounding community. Star Trek is not.
In other words - being a sport fan is accepted because there are so many sport fans - which bring money. Strength in numbers.
Meaning - there's only a quantitative difference between sport fans and trek (or other) fans. NO QUALITATIVE difference.
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Old October 7 2010, 07:43 PM   #80
Alex1939
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post

In other words - being a sport fan is accepted because there are so many sport fans - which bring money. Strength in numbers.
Meaning - there's only a quantitative difference between sport fans and trek (or other) fans. NO QUALITATIVE difference.
No. I did not bring up every possible difference. But let me spoonfeed you some knowledge since it seems you need it.


Sports are athletics. Star Trek is a TV show. Sports are real life. TV shows are make believe. If you can't figure out the difference from there, you are probably part of the reason Star Trek fans get asked "why do you think the TV show you watch is real?"
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Old October 7 2010, 07:47 PM   #81
ProtoAvatar
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post

In other words - being a sport fan is accepted because there are so many sport fans - which bring money. Strength in numbers.
Meaning - there's only a quantitative difference between sport fans and trek (or other) fans. NO QUALITATIVE difference.
No. I did not bring up every possible difference. But let me spoonfeed you some knowledge since it seems you need it.


Sports are athletics. Star Trek is a TV show. Sports are real life. TV shows are make believe. If you can't figure out the difference from there, you are probably part of the reason Star Trek fans get asked "why do you think the TV show you watch is real?"
Sports are athletics for the teams actually participating in the game.
For the fans
(if they are on a stadium), they're entertainment - just not on TV. Fans do NOT participate in any way in the competition; they just sit and watch - they could just as well be watching TV (and, in many cases, thay are watching TV).

Also - cut down on your aggressivity (and your obvious bias) - they only show how insecure you are about being a sport fan, Alex1939.
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Old October 7 2010, 07:57 PM   #82
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post
ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
Playing football in the back yard is...equivalent to writing an original science fiction story.
I've done both. It's not.
You think so because writing an original story is a lot harder than playing football in the back yard. Or maybe because one is a physical activity and the other, an intellectual activity.
I think so because they are qualitatively different. They are different experiences altogether.

You might as well say that sex is the same as eating dinner, since they're both activities that bring physical pleasure and that people often enjoy in groups of two or more. This reductive "x = y" nonsense serves no analytic purpose; it's simple defensiveness.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:06 PM   #83
ProtoAvatar
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Dennis

Both activities are inspired by the cultural phenomenon you are a fan of, both activities have as purpose the creation of an original product that involves effort, very different from the habitual fan activity - which is watching (sports/TV) in both cases.

They may be different experiences (one physical, one intellectual), but as far as their relationship to the cultural phenomenon you are a fan of is concerned, they are quite comparable - in both cases, you are trying to imitate the professionals who get payed for doing it (the sport players, respectively the scenarists/writers).
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Old October 7 2010, 08:17 PM   #84
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

My "aggressivity" is not due to insecurity, but due to annoyance at people's lack of total common sense. Obviously I don't mean sports fans are competing in athletic events and its ridiculous for you to have drawn that conclusion.

Let me make it simpler for you...

Athletes are real. I have met and seen many in bars and restaurants in the town I live. They are part of the community where I live. They host sports camps for underprivileged kids, they do community service in soup kitchens for homeless, etc. The sports events they compete in are real.

Star Trek characters are fictional. They do not exist. Their stories are not real.

I hope that helps you.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:19 PM   #85
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

ProtoAvatar wrote: View Post
in both cases, you are trying to imitate the professionals who get payed for doing it...
Well, no.

I don't play football in imitation of anyone; I do it for its own sake. And the other thing, I've been paid for.

Alex1939 wrote: View Post

Athletes are real. I have met and seen many in bars and restaurants in the town I live. They are part of the community where I live. They host sports camps for underprivileged kids, they do community service in soup kitchens for homeless, etc. The sports events they compete in are real.

Star Trek characters are fictional. They do not exist. Their stories are not real.
Yep.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:29 PM   #86
Tora Ziyal
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
You think wearing an Orioles shirt is the same as hanging up a UFP flag in your office?

I would think you were a weirdo too, sorry. I mean, where do you draw the line? Can I post Zena and Hercules posters around my office, would that be appropriate for my business??
No, they're not the same. But in context...

Overall, my office was the most professional-looking one in the agency (neat, organized, freshly painted, real art on the walls) and received compliments. And I usually dressed in suits or other business attire. He had an office that was chaos -- so messy that people talked about it. And he dressed very casually, even when he wasn't in a team shirt.

In terms of "professional image", which was his concern... sorry, I won hands down.

And, yes, one Zena or Hercules poster might be appropriate, depending on what kind of business it is.

I once visited a business where the boss had a wall of shelves in his office holding models or toys of some sort. I forget what they were now, but the point is that they were kind of playful in an otherwise business-like office.

I thought it was really cool; you might've thought it was unprofessional.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:36 PM   #87
Alex1939
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Sure, it all depends on the workplace. Based on your original description I just pictured a very professional corporate workplace, and in that setting its hard to see hanging something from a tv show on a wall as normal (unless of course it was in that industry).
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Old October 7 2010, 08:37 PM   #88
ProtoAvatar
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Let me make it simpler for you...

Athletes are real. I have met and seen many in bars and restaurants in the town I live. They are part of the community where I live. They host sports camps for underprivileged kids, they do community service in soup kitchens for homeless, etc. The sports events they compete in are real.

Star Trek characters are fictional. They do not exist. Their stories are not real.

I hope that helps you.
Athletes are real - and get payed good money for the games they play which are 'real'?
Well, actors and scenarists are real too- and they also get payed good money for their work. They also donate/participate in charity. The sets where they play and the cameras are real too.

Athletes play a game halfway around the world, actors play a scene halfway around the globe.
The fan has no influence on the outcome of the game being played or on the script being acted; they may take place in 'real life', but they do not affect his life, one way or the other, in the least.

My "aggressivity" is not due to insecurity, but due to annoyance at people's lack of total common sense. Obviously I don't mean sports fans are competing in athletic events and its ridiculous for you to have drawn that conclusion.
Your aggressivity (and bias) is due to your limited viewpoint:

You fail to realise that most sport fans are NOT part of communities supported by the local sport team; that they lack your financial interest (which does, indeed, add substance to sport - or anything else).
Most sport fans, far from receiveing (even indirectly) money from sport, give money to sport; from them comes the money supporting your community, for example.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:39 PM   #89
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Alex1939 wrote: View Post
Sure, it all depends on the workplace. Based on your original description I just pictured a very professional corporate workplace, and in that setting its hard to see hanging something from a tv show on a wall as normal (unless of course it was in that industry).
You folks would have a stroke if you came into mine. It looks like a Toys R Us exploded in it. But technically it is a studio and an artist can get away with far more than the average business professional. Going to a design meeting with paint in my hair is common place at the House of Smurf.

But again it is all in the perspective. My Trek toys make me look whimsical in an artsy way. That helps me to land clients. Those same toys would make a lawyer look silly, compromising his integrity.
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Old October 7 2010, 08:46 PM   #90
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Re: Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Now I can't get the "It's a FAAAAKE!"/"It's REEEAAAL!" video out of my head, the way you guys are going back and forth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4
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