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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Enterprise

Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

View Poll Results: Pick a destiny for Jonathan Archer
President of the Federation 31 56.36%
Admiral, academy instructor 20 36.36%
I don't like either 4 7.27%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 16 2010, 12:30 AM   #1
F. King Daniel
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The fate of Jonathan Archer

In a barely glimpsed on-screen graphic in the episode "In a Mirror, Darkly", Archer's service record is displayed. It says he ends up Ambassador to Andoria and eventually Federation President.

In Star Trek XI, an Admiral Archer is referred to as Scotty's academy instructor, whose "prize beagle" is lost in a transwarp beaming experiment leading to the engineer's exile on Delta Vega. If this is the same guy from Enterprise (the writers of the movie have stated that it was their intent) he would be about 140 at the time, assuming he got "then" without help.

STXI takes place in an alternate timeline to TOS and the rest, but since the timelines diverge in 2233, Enterprise should be part of their shared past. Since ex-presidents are referred to by the title "President", and the IaMD graphic says Archer became president before the split, the two destinies are incompatible. Which does everyone prefer?
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Old September 16 2010, 12:43 AM   #2
F. King Daniel
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

Oh yeah, almost forgot:

I dislike the "President Archer" idea. It sounds like a John Sheridan Babylon 5 rip off, plus the graphic's pretty much invisible unless you have HD, pause and zoom in. IMO it was meant to be an neat easter egg for die-hard fans, but not to be taken any more seriously than all the other little in-jokes on background computer screens over the years.
Also: I wouldn't vote for him.

I find the idea of him becoming an instructor at the academy far more believable. A pioneer of space exploration, he'd have much to teach the next generation(s) of Starfleet.
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Old September 16 2010, 12:45 AM   #3
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

It doesn't have to be the same Archer. I don't care what the intent was. It was probably Jonathan's son or grandson.

And even if not, it was only Scotty who called him Admiral. Maybe Scotty just got it wrong? Meaning, he didn't know the proper form of address?
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Old September 16 2010, 01:21 AM   #4
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

I don't see why he couldn't be both (not at the same time, of course). Just because US Presidents are referred to in a certain way doesn't mean it has to be true for the Federation President, too. And there were probably exceptions to the rule in American history, anyway.
I always liked the idea of him going into politics and I think we saw the beginnings of that in Demons/Terra Prime and even before that, in United. A sort of 'If you want something done you have to do it yourself' approach. Also, blackmailing Earth's Prime Minister is a promising start to a political career.

I also like the idea of him being a (rather undiplomatic) diplomat. Andoria is a good choice because he seems to get their culture. Personally, I take some pleasure in imagining him as ambassador to Vulcan. It would make sense, too, because after finding the Kir'Shara and carrying Surak's katra around he should hava an unique perspective and also the (grudging) respect of the Vulcans. Besides, it would be much more entertaining.

I actually like the idea of him staying in Starfleet until old age the least. In TrekLit this has become something of a cliché. Then again, we have no idea what happened to Archer in between and it's fun to imagine all sorts of scenarios how and why's he's still around in Kirk's time. Did he get frozen for a while? Did he discover a fountain of youth?
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Old September 16 2010, 01:30 AM   #5
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

Why is it hard to believe that Jonathon Archer could live to be 140 or older? 22nd century medical science and a healthy physique alone could preserve a Trek character beyond our current era standards. Need I mention McCoy on the Enterprise D?

And it's Star Trek, they got a hypo-spray that cures every disease in one shot, medical knowledge from long lived alien races, not to mention the Nexus (Kirk), alien entity fuck buddies (Cochrane), and pattern buffer storage (Scotty) that can keep a man alive for centuries... and time travel, perhaps Archer skipped a few years ahead on some mission with Daniels?

I would imagine that Archer lived a long, and amazing life zipping around Starfleet's formative years... bring on the Captain Professor President Ambassador Archer Chronicles!!
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Old September 16 2010, 01:31 AM   #6
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

I'm fine with the idea of our Jonathan Archer being the president of the Federation. His standing following the Babel One arc and the Demons/Terra Prime arc, would make him a logical choice to be a representative to the early Coalition and then the Federation.
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Old September 16 2010, 01:51 AM   #7
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

FlapJoy wrote: View Post
Why is it hard to believe that Jonathon Archer could live to be 140 or older?
That's not the problem.

The issue is whether Scotty's reference to him as "Admiral Archer" is compatible with Archer being a former Federation President (since IRL, former presidents are always called President - even if they are veterans).

I think it likely that either Scotty didn't realize this, and called Archer an Admiral even though he was a former President, or OTOH the custom could simply have changed.
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Old September 16 2010, 02:43 AM   #8
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

Or it could simply be that, of the two titles, he preferred Admiral to President.
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Old September 16 2010, 05:06 AM   #9
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

elaithin wrote: View Post
Or it could simply be that, of the two titles, he preferred Admiral to President.
This is the way I see it. As someone who was an Admiral and a President, either form of address would be applicable. Take for example George Washington, Ulysses S. Grant, or Dwight Eisenhower. They were all generals and U.S. Presidents - and throughout their lives, even in their post-presidencies, they were often referred to as "General."

Personally, I like the idea that Archer went on to be the UFP President. Throughout the fourth season, we saw him beginning to become a political figure. And, he was instrumental in bringing the four founding member species together.

I also don't think it was much of a Babylon 5 rip-off. Sheridan went right into the presidency from his military career and was the very first president of the Alliance. Archer didn't do that. Even though he was one of the "Founding Fathers" of the Federation, he had a political career in between his time in Starfleet and his presidency - his career as Ambassador to Andoria. I like the fact that they didn't make him the first UFP President.
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Old September 16 2010, 01:24 PM   #10
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

For me, it's real simple.

Prime Universe: Archer becomes Federation President and lives just long enough to see the launch of Enterprise NCC-1701.

Alternate Universe: Archer stays in Starfleet (ala McCoy in TNG)

Personal preference: Archer eventually goes on to become the Earth Ambassador within the Federation, but dies circa 2220.
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Old September 16 2010, 02:41 PM   #11
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

I'm sticking with President of the Federation and I will assume that Scotty called him Admiral as a title of respect and out of tradition. Although it did seem to me that none of the crew of the Enterprise in Star Trek XI showed any military respect or tradition.
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Old September 16 2010, 02:43 PM   #12
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

Isn't it entirely possible that Admiral Archer is President Archer's son?
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Old September 16 2010, 02:46 PM   #13
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The issue is whether Scotty's reference to him as "Admiral Archer" is compatible with Archer being a former Federation President (since IRL, former presidents are always called President - even if they are veterans).

I think it likely that either Scotty didn't realize this, and called Archer an Admiral even though he was a former President, or OTOH the custom could simply have changed.
Err, is it necessary to mention that Archer was supposedly the Federation President, not the US President? I know you guys love to think it's the same thing, but it's not.

Custom didn't need to change, since it's not the same custom to begin with.
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Old September 16 2010, 02:52 PM   #14
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

^ No since we are in an alternate timeline. I don't see why we're even debating about this...it was clearly a shout out to "Enterprise" and Jonathon Archer, right down to the reference of Porthos. McCoy was shown on the pilot episode of "TNG" walking with Data as being 140+ and it would only be logical to assume that medical technology of the future has advance along with improved living conditions to ensure that extended life spans for humans are possible.

The Archer mentioned by Scotty obviously remained in Starfleet and was a Senior Admiral of note again obviously meant to be a shout out to "Enterprise". Remember all the rumors and discussion we had about the rumored stature of Archer that was supposed to be outside Starfleet Academy which was proven to be untrue.

As for the bio...it has been posted on the board before as soon as a couple of days after "In A Mirror Darkly" aired. Pretty sure I also saw it in Mirror Archer's article on Memory Alpha.
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Old September 16 2010, 03:09 PM   #15
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Re: The fate of Jonathan Archer

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The issue is whether Scotty's reference to him as "Admiral Archer" is compatible with Archer being a former Federation President (since IRL, former presidents are always called President - even if they are veterans).

I think it likely that either Scotty didn't realize this, and called Archer an Admiral even though he was a former President, or OTOH the custom could simply have changed.
Err, is it necessary to mention that Archer was supposedly the Federation President, not the US President?
I did say "IRL", you know.
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