RLM finally did it / Plinkett reviews Star Trek

[Too Much Fun]

TedShatner10 wrote:

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RedLetterMedia's panning of First Contact but giving Star Trek XI comparative leniency is a primary reason why I don't put stock in him as a reviewer

Yeah, I feel same way. I can't ever completely back his perspective after he called my favourite Star Trek movie (and one of my overall favourite movies of all time) one of the worst movies ever and nitpicked it to a ridiculous degree.

I can understand some criticisms of it even if nothing about it bothers me, but he went way overboard. As for the Simon Pegg thing, I know Pegg enjoyed the Phantom Menace pan and linked to it from his website, but I doubt that influenced the review of "Star Trek" 2009.

[Destructor]

I thought RLM was fair to First Contact (he points out what he likes about it) and fair to Star Trek 09 (he does point out, correctly, that it's a mindless action film with little relation to Star Trek, the show), on their merits and their flaws.

But the bottom line is that reviewing was entertaining, funny, and drew on an encyclopedic obsession to detail that should amuse and delight all Trek fans- it's stunningly well put together and I loved every second of it.

[Ryan8bit]

Kirk1980 wrote:

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Er, then what does that make TOS and Trek 09 then? TOS = TV and Trek 09 = silver screen. I kinda don't see the distinction you're drawing here...

It's more of my own personal opinion rather than the opinions of the majority. I feel like all the movies are lacking or flawed in some way in comparison to the format of the TV shows. In the adaptation to movies, they try and pander more to those who like action rather than substance. The latest movie really seems to exemplify that. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Gaith wrote:

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Just because FC is a good movie doesn't mean it's a good continuation of the TNG characters' stories.

Maybe not all of the characters, but Data and Picard had good continuation. It's unfortunate that the rest of the movies focused so much on these two though.

[sonak]

Gaith wrote:

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Dude, we discussed this fairly recently on this very thread. Just because FC is a good movie doesn't mean it's a good continuation of the TNG characters' stories. But RLM's position is that, in the context of an alternate, pre-TOS story, XI is a successful re-invigoration of a franchise that was previously comatose. His positions are only contradictory if you don't listen to his review, because he addresses and explains his different rubrics right off the bat.

Thanks for that, I'm obviously just an idiot. But seriously, I don't know what it means that FC wasn't a good continuation of TNG characters' stories. That movie, despite being an action film, probably has the best character moments of the TNG films. (Picard's character arc, Data's character arc, Picard-Lilly, and for non-regulars, Cochrane's character arc)


FC was much LESS of a "fluff" movie than Trek XI, and yet as others have pointed out, it got ripped to shreds by RLM.

Just because Trek XI was technically a "reboot" doesn't mean it should have been held to lower standards, but he was obviously grading on a curve.

And just because I came to different conclusions doesn't mean I didn't watch the review.

[Devon]

sonak wrote:

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Thanks for that, I'm obviously just an idiot. But seriously, I don't know what it means that FC wasn't a good continuation of TNG characters' stories. That movie, despite being an action film, probably has the best character moments of the TNG films. (Picard's character arc, Data's character arc, Picard-Lilly, and for non-regulars, Cochrane's character arc)


FC was much LESS of a "fluff" movie than Trek XI, and yet as others have pointed out, it got ripped to shreds by RLM.

Just because Trek XI was technically a "reboot" doesn't mean it should have been held to lower standards, but he was obviously grading on a curve.

And just because I came to different conclusions doesn't mean I didn't watch the review.

Still more wishful thinking. All this comes down to is "He didn't share my opinion." That's all. None of the "He's holding it lower standards," stuff applies. It's simply his review, he didn't have as harsh of an opinion as some of you wanted him to.

[Gaith]

sonak wrote:

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That movie, despite being an action film, probably has the best character moments of the TNG films. (Picard's character arc

Eh? He forgets everything he learned in "I, Borg" and subsequent Borg episodes, gets angry for a bit but then is brought to his senses by a Moby-Dick reference. That's not a very significant arc.

sonak wrote:

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Data's character arc

Huh? He's tempted with some skin and... well, skin, but decides to not f*** over his friends and crewmates. That's an arc?

sonak wrote:

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Picard-Lilly

Some nice moments, but it's time we could have spent on the movie-marginalized non-Picard/Data TNG cast. Sure, they get cooler cameos in this movie than the others, but they still get no arcs at all. At least Insurrection and Nemesis moved the Riker/Troi thing along.

sonak wrote:

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Just because Trek XI was technically a "reboot" doesn't mean it should have been held to lower standards

Not lower, but different standards. FC acted like it was a serious continuation of the TNG story, not a nonsensical Borg story that shreds the concept of the Collective by giving it a Queen featuring a Rambo-ized Picard. XI didn't pretend to be anything other than a wild, sometimes goofy ride. Different syles, different tones, different goals --> different standards.

[thumbtack]

But isn't it risible that the people who claim Star Trek was a mindless action movie are the very same people who claim First Contact was not.

[Psion]

thumbtack wrote:

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But isn't it risible that the people who claim Star Trek was a mindless action movie are the very same people who claim First Contact was not.

They are?

[Ryan8bit]

Devon wrote:

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It's simply his review, he didn't have as harsh of an opinion as some of you wanted him to.

Every one of his previous reviews was harsh with maybe the exception of Avatar. That's his style. When all of a sudden he lets up on a movie, people become suspicious because that's not his style.

Gaith wrote:

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Eh? He forgets everything he learned in "I, Borg" and subsequent Borg episodes, gets angry for a bit but then is brought to his senses by a Moby-Dick reference. That's not a very significant arc.

The only thing Picard learned in "I, Borg" was that Borg had the potential to become individuals rather than automatons. His hatred for the Borg never really went away. And the subsequent Borg episodes had Nechayev ordering Picard to not do what he did in that episode.

The Borg in First Contact were not separated from the collective and didn't show any signs of individuality on top of being an enemy that was attacking them. I'd say he had every right to be angry with them. But Lily did have a point about him not even trying to save them. Picard is having the realization that regardless of the Borg attacking him and not showing any signs of being individuals that they should still be helped.

As an aside, he also lost his family in Generations, which was there to help him during his recovery from the Borg attack. Without his family, his grief may have returned him to feelings of bitterness toward the Borg.

sonak wrote:

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Huh? He's tempted with some skin and... well, skin, but decides to not f*** over his friends and crewmates. That's an arc?

Data's arc was always about becoming human. Generations jump started it in the movies so that Data would deal with the consequences of his new found emotions. They could have really picked any perceived emotional flaw and that would have been character growth for him. In Generations it was fear and coping with emotions of sadness. In FC, it was about trying to tame his emotions even to the point of being turned off, but realizing that some situations he couldn't even resist. They resorted to temptation of humanity though, which had sort of been done before in "Descent".

[Too Much Fun]

Sorry to play mod, but this is going way off-topic. There are many, many threads for debating the pros and cons of "Star Trek: First Contact". This one is supposed to be about RLM's reviewing, not simply the merits of the movies themselves. I find it interesting that discussions of his reviews seem to inevitably lead to debate on whether or not he was fair to "Star Trek: First Contact".

That may be the most controversial review he's done and I think this says something about the quality of the movie. With most of his reviews, people tend to enjoy him ripping things, because they are almost universally reviled, but the eighth Star Trek movie is an exception. Personally, I'm pretty neutral about the Star Wars movies (didn't really like or hate any of them, except "Revenge of the Sith", which I despised), so I thoroughly enjoyed his evisceration of "The Phantom Menace".

[THE CHEBB]

LOL! Spot on and funny as shigitty!

[sonak]

I disagree that discussing First Contact in this thread is off topic. The issue was:


1. RLM went easy on STXI (You can disagree with this assertion, but this is the argument being made by myself and others)

2. RLM Rarely goes easy on the movies he chooses to review, with the exception of "Avatar" as mentioned above

3. RLM Savaged First Contact in his review of that film, for in part being (paraphrasing) "a big dumb action movie," a criticism that if you think is fair or not, would probably apply EVEN MORE SO to Trek XI.

4. So the question is why did RLM lay off Trek XI? Even if you loved TREK XI, but were being fair, I think you'd agree that there was material there that could have been used in a funny criticism of the movie.



I'm disappointed in two respects:

Yes I wanted RLM to be more consistent and also to address some flaws of Trek XI, but more to the point, as I mentioned before:


I just think he was off his game. I wanted a funnier review, along the lines of his SW prequel reviews, like I mentioned before, and I think his holding back was what made this review less funny.

[Devon]

sonak wrote:

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Yes I wanted RLM to be more consistent and also to address some flaws of Trek XI, but more to the point, as I mentioned before:

He did point out what he felt were flaws.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Devon wrote:

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He did point out what he felt were flaws.

Agreed.

People seem to now have this expectation that this guy will just tear everything apart.
I think that, in some ways, this is one of his best reviews, because he does defend his position very well.
In fact the only spot where he goes wrong is in shortchanging the exposition scene where Checkov explained what was happening to the crew. If you listen to that carefully, you will find that that the black holes and the seismic activity are separate events.

It's appropriate that he tones his act down, otherwise it would get old. I'm sure the hooker character will return for the Episode 3 review.

I think any Trek fan will appreciate and agree with many of the individual points in this review.

[Nerd unRage]

I think it's much easier for RLM to do a funny review if Plinkett hates the movie he's reviewing. Clearly, he liked this one and attempted more of a real review rather than getting distracted by the hooker in his basement.