RLM finally did it / Plinkett reviews Star Trek

[The Keeper]

Crap, I am late so most of the good stuff has been taken. I'll argue his point about the turbo-lift. Fair argument supported by nice graphics to make his point - yada yada yada.

I was never particularly impressed with the old, cannonized TL. What a piece of crap! Fortunately the story never called for someone to get somewhere in a hurry! Oh wait, I remember, Kirk once needed someone deep in the ship to get to the bridge on the double and what do you know, that person arrived seconds later. Speed of plot? Of course.

So why didn't ST09 just cheat, show Spock getting into the TL, cut, set to bridge, action, doors open, Spock emerges. Did they just overlook it? I don't think so. I think someone finally applied the logic; the ship has dampeners to keep people from flying backwards when the ship goes to warp, why wouldn't the same be possible for the TL?

By the way, I loved finally actually getting to see some NG era battle scenes. I was so sick and tired of always only just hearing about them. Even Wolf 359 was just a tease, imo.

[Nerd unRage]

Isn't the scene where Spock gets in the TL going up the bridge the first time we see the bridge? I think it was done for the "look at the shiny new bridge" effect. Could be wrong.

[indranee]

Gawd, I needed that belly laugh today!

[Ryan8bit]

Interesting review. Maybe he toned down the psycho killer stuff because his opinions weren't really all that crazy. With a lot of the other movies he does, he nitpicks them to death, so it's only fitting that his role is that of a psychopathic shut-in.

It's kind of a strange double standard, actually. The movies he's criticized before weren't beyond criticism, but weren't exactly terrible either. I'd place a few of them as on par with ST09 (which is also not beyond criticism).

[G2309]

The only battle that made the ships look weak was in tears of the prophets the best battle scene of Trek in sacrifice of angels. Handled the ships pretty well considering the scale.
I don't understand why people don't like the depicted size of starfleet. Space is vast and the federation has many members. To protect the federation and to go exploring they would need a lot of ships. They have the resources and the man power. Where's the problem?

[sonak]

Ryan8bit wrote:

---

Interesting review. Maybe he toned down the psycho killer stuff because his opinions weren't really all that crazy. With a lot of the other movies he does, he nitpicks them to death, so it's only fitting that his role is that of a psychopathic shut-in.

It's kind of a strange double standard, actually. The movies he's criticized before weren't beyond criticism, but weren't exactly terrible either. I'd place a few of them as on par with ST09 (which is also not beyond criticism).

Right, that's what I found odd about this review. RLM was MUCH harsher on ST: First Contact, largely regarded as the best of the TNG movies. And yet in the Trek09 review, even the criticisms seem almost.... half-hearted, like he was tiptoeing around being negative about it.

Is it because it's common knowledge that the film was wildly popular among fans and critics, and he feared it would look dumb to be more critical of it?

Again, it just seemed RLM was a little off his game here.

[Kirk1980]

Nerd unRage wrote:

---

....It's what made me curious about watching TOS and all the movies with the original crew in them. A couple of criticisms did annoy me, though. The section about everyone have a case of the Notgays. Really, that wasn't essential to reviewing the movie as a whole and I'm getting tired of people making the connection that Sulu is gay because George Takei is gay. That's like saying a gay actor playing a straight character is now straight. It's not funny and it's immature.

You're new, I'll cut you some slack. TOS has been heavily er...rewritten...by certain elements of the community to be very gay. Most definitely with Kirk/Spock but also with Spock/McCoy and ad nauseum. That's why RLM 'picked up on' the establishment of the 'NotGay' stuff.

[Devon]

sonak wrote:

---

Right, that's what I found odd about this review. RLM was MUCH harsher on ST: First Contact, largely regarded as the best of the TNG movies. And yet in the Trek09 review, even the criticisms seem almost.... half-hearted, like he was tiptoeing around being negative about it.

Is it because it's common knowledge that the film was wildly popular among fans and critics, and he feared it would look dumb to be more critical of it?

Again, it just seemed RLM was a little off his game here.

Wishful thinking. A cigar is just a cigar.

[Destructor]

That was fucking amazing.

[Ryan8bit]

sonak wrote:

---

Right, that's what I found odd about this review. RLM was MUCH harsher on ST: First Contact, largely regarded as the best of the TNG movies.

But that doesn't say much considering the TNG movies. In fact, most of the movies are flawed in many ways because they were trying to take something made for TV and make it work on the silver screen.

Is it because it's common knowledge that the film was wildly popular among fans and critics, and he feared it would look dumb to be more critical of it?

If that were the case, he might not have ripped into First Contact.

I think he gave ST09 a pass because it reminded him more of Star Wars and because the team who put it together created a visually appealing movie. He even said the plot is fluff, but that he didn't care. And that's kind of what the Onion got at with their headline article. The movie is a fun popcorn flick, not deep science fiction. The latter should have sadly never been expected, even though on occasion Star Trek had given that more in the past on TV.

For this movie, he probably had no expectations so he couldn't really be disappointed.

[Kirk1980]

Ryan8bit wrote:

---

But that doesn't say much considering the TNG movies. In fact, most of the movies are flawed in many ways because they were trying to take something made for TV and make it work on the silver screen.

Er, then what does that make TOS and Trek 09 then? TOS = TV and Trek 09 = silver screen. I kinda don't see the distinction you're drawing here...

[sonak]

Kirk1980 beat me to your first point-that of course, TOS was a television show that successfully made the transition to films, so why couldn't TNG have?

Well, I for one think it did. I think the first two(I know "Generations" isn't too popular, but oh well) are good films. And though the latter two in my opinion aren't, that's more due to the story and script than some inherent problem of the TNG franchise.




As to why RLM didn't go easy on ST: FC, well, I don't know, but even if it was the most popular of the NG movies, it didn't come CLOSE to the mainstream appeal of TREK09. (Perhaps only TVH did).

Also, since the Next Gen film series eventually ended in fairly big failure, it's easier to criticize the films in retrospect.

[TedShatner10]

RedLetterMedia's panning of First Contact but giving Star Trek XI comparative leniency is a primary reason why I don't put stock in him as a reviewer (plus I heard a rumour going around that he gave a fair-ish review to please Simon Pegg, a supposed fan of his, which sounds laughable if true).

Overall TNG's movie series had little of the charm of TOS's movie series, with such crap like Insurrection and Nemesis looking bad in comparison to The Phantom Menace and The Revenge of the Sith. Three out of four of TNG movies were underwhelming successors to TNG proper, with Deep Space Nine and even Voyager brimming with more inventive stories and interesting characters.

However I've still got a soft spot for First Contact, certainly not perfect but less derivative than Star Trek (09) and it had the best overseas box office performance until XI.

[The Squire of Gothos]

TedShatner10 wrote:

---

However I've still got a soft spot for First Contact, certainly not perfect but less derivative than Star Trek (09)

Does less derivative mean less faithful? That's how it felt (the movie I mean).

[Gaith]

sonak wrote:

---

Right, that's what I found odd about this review. RLM was MUCH harsher on ST: First Contact, largely regarded as the best of the TNG movies. And yet in the Trek09 review, even the criticisms seem almost.... half-hearted, like he was tiptoeing around being negative about it.

Dude, we discussed this fairly recently on this very thread. Just because FC is a good movie doesn't mean it's a good continuation of the TNG characters' stories. But RLM's position is that, in the context of an alternate, pre-TOS story, XI is a successful re-invigoration of a franchise that was previously comatose. His positions are only contradictory if you don't listen to his review, because he addresses and explains his different rubrics right off the bat.