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Old August 29 2010, 03:21 AM   #1
SonsofSoong2338
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Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

I love writing fan fiction for TNG, and I have an idea I want to fly past everyone:

During Lore's last appearance in the episode "Descent II" Data incapacitates Lore near the end, but it's never really clear that Lore was definitively killed. Data shoots him, causing Lore to slump over, but Lore still says some words to him. Then, Data makes some alterations to the back of his head and Lore goes off line. It seems pretty lame that doing some tinkering to the back of Lore's head would mean his certain death. It just seems to me that Data deactivated him, he didn't destroy him. So...here's my idea....

After Lore was deactivated, his body was disassembled and sent to the Daystrom Institute on Earth (the same institute that Bruce Maddox ran). After almost 8 years, Maddox gets impatient with his inability to replicate a stable positronic net, so he reassembles Lore and attempts to copy his stable matrix--without informing Data or requesting his permission. During this process, Lore comes completely back online and resists the rest of Maddox's experiments. Maddox detains him and is forced to inform Data about what he has done. But, Maddox is desperate to keep Lore from being deisassmebled again. he wants him alive for his experiments. So, he corrects the abnormality in Lore's moral subroutines.

Basically, the rest of the story is about Lore having to force the crimes he committed and how, with the corrections to his moral subroutines, he now feels regret about them. What does everyone think? Am I going a little too outside the box by trying to bring back a "supposedly" dead character?
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Old August 29 2010, 09:44 AM   #2
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Sounds like a terrific premise. As far as I know, there were never any canon references to Lore's ultimate fate. I know some people argue that he may have been stored aboard the Enterprise-D, and possibly destroyed in the explosion of the stardrive section in Generations, but that's pure conjecture.

I think it's entirely possible that Lore would have been handed over to the Daystrom Institute or some other such engineering think tank in order to study his mechanics.

That's the beauty of fanfic, it allows you to explore those areas canon screen writers and official book authors haven't delved into.

I say go for it!
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Old August 29 2010, 01:33 PM   #3
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

^ Agreed! Sounds like an interesting premise that should make for a great story!
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Old August 29 2010, 10:35 PM   #4
SonsofSoong2338
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that=). I've been working on it for a while now, and when I'm done I just plan to post it on the web for free. After all, I'm sure Paramount wouldn't much appreciate anyone making money from canon Trek characters=)
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Old August 29 2010, 11:21 PM   #5
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

One problem...isn't Lore's emotion chip inside Data's head? How would Lore feel any emotions? Or was another one made for him?
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Old August 30 2010, 12:14 AM   #6
Gibraltar
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
One problem...isn't Lore's emotion chip inside Data's head? How would Lore feel any emotions? Or was another one made for him?
It was always my impression that Data fashioned his own emotion chip, based on the damaged one he retrieved from Lore. The larger, bulkier chip we saw in Generations was much different that the tiny one Data displayed after Lore's capture and deactivation.

You're correct, though, for Lore to be able to experience regret at his earlier actions, that plot-point would need to be addressed.
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Old August 30 2010, 12:39 AM   #7
FlapJoy
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Gibraltar wrote: View Post
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
One problem...isn't Lore's emotion chip inside Data's head? How would Lore feel any emotions? Or was another one made for him?
It was always my impression that Data fashioned his own emotion chip, based on the damaged one he retrieved from Lore. The larger, bulkier chip we saw in Generations was much different that the tiny one Data displayed after Lore's capture and deactivation.
From what I recall, Lore was already built with emotions right out of the box. He had emotions in his first appearance on TNG prior to the Dr Soong episode. So, Lore didn't really need an emotion chip in the first place...

THEN: Dr Soong created an emotion chip only for Data, but Lore tricked the old man into thinking he was Data so Soong mistakenly put the chip in Lore. With the extra dose of emotions, Lore became off balance, leading to a more diabolical version of him in latter episodes...

THEN: When Lore was deactivated the e-chip was removed and rightfully put into Data. SO, Lore would still have his original emotional protocols even though Data's e-chip was eventually removed.

PLUS: The reason it looked bigger and bulkier in Generations was only for theatrical reasons... it may not have seemed so important on the big screen had it remained the same small postage stamp it was on television.
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Old August 30 2010, 12:56 AM   #8
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Oh, I get that they wanted a more dramatic looking movie variant for the chip, I'm just trying to rationalize/reconcile the differences from a 'canon' perspective.

Fair point in regards to Lore's original programming. Unless Maddox has learned to dramatically redesign Dr. Soong's positronic brain, Lore's going to be just as much of a sociopath as he was originally.
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Old August 30 2010, 12:57 AM   #9
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

I was disappointed that Lore wasn't used in ST:Nemesis instead of B4. My version of Nemesis would have been Sela instead of Shinzon and Lore pretending to be B4 to trick the crew and steal information. Sela could have wanted revenge on Earth for her being half human and revenge on the Romulan command for maybe holding her career back after the reunification mess with Picard and Spock.
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Old August 30 2010, 01:01 AM   #10
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

As bad as Nemesis was, Denise Crosby reprising the lackluster role of Sela would have only made it immeasurably worse. She doesn't have the acting chops to be the baddie in a major Trek film.
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Old August 30 2010, 01:31 AM   #11
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

I think you are right but we wouldn't have had to see her for long, they could have beefed up Lore's part in the movie.
We will never know unless makes a movie with another character from Trek falling thru a wormhole into a alternate universe where Nemesis is different.
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Old August 30 2010, 12:57 PM   #12
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Gibraltar wrote: View Post
As bad as Nemesis was, Denise Crosby reprising the lackluster role of Sela would have only made it immeasurably worse. She doesn't have the acting chops to be the baddie in a major Trek film.
I think Sela and Lore, instead of Picard Jr and B4, would have been an interesting duo in Nemesis. Considering the history Data had with Yar, it would of been a fascinating parallel. Giving plenty more weight to the name Nemesis, and tugging on emotional strings in a lot of the crew, especially an emotion-chipped Data.

They could of re-cast Sela (like with Alley/Curtis), with a back story that she's outcast from the Romulan empire after the events in Unification, taken in by the Remans and made their leader. She could of been slimmed down and toned-up from a harsh life in exile in the mines of Remus (explaining the new actress, Keira Knightley anyone?), once again echoing momma Yars tragic life. Then as Data gives up his life for his crew, a captured Lore could be Data's new vessel similar to how B4's purpose was in the actual film. And giving closure to the Data/Lore arc.

It actually makes more sense then what transpired in the film... a whole 'nother Soong android? A Picard clone? C'mon.

The blanks could be filled in, and we could have had a more fan friendly last outing with the TNG crew... just sayin'.
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Old August 31 2010, 03:22 AM   #13
SonsofSoong2338
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Actually, Data just took back the emotion chip that Lore stole from him. There is never any mention of Lore having an "emotion chip" at all. His were hardwired.
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Old August 31 2010, 03:24 AM   #14
SonsofSoong2338
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

Actually, I think the difference in the appearance of the chips was simply a movie blooper. Lore did not have emotions from a chip. His were a hardwired component of his system. The chip Data retrieved from Lore was the one Lore stole earlier
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Old August 31 2010, 03:27 AM   #15
SonsofSoong2338
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Re: Was Lore really killed? Couldn't he be brought back?

I had thought of that, but in the episode "brothers", Lore is arguing with Dr. Soong and demands why he didn't just "fix me". This implies to me that whatever is wrong with Lore is something correctable. I thought I might present it as a problem with the starkness of his moral reasoning. As we've learning from many science fiction stories about AI, a very stark definition of right and wrong almost always leads to evil. Without grey areas, anything can be rationalized into being good. This may be what was wrong with Lore.
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