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Old August 19 2010, 06:50 AM   #1
Dusty Ayres
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Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

It was confirmed over the weekend that the retro cartoon series, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, is coming to an end after two seasons. The cancellation news came at the TV show panel at Comic-Con.

At the event, producer James Tucker revealed that they have finally received permission to team Batman up with Wonder Woman and Superman for the series. Both will be featured before the conclusion of the last 13 episodes.

Like the rest of the show’s guest-stars, Wonder Woman and Superman will be friends of the caped crusader’s but Tucker says that they’ll have an “interesting dynamic” with Batman. The final installments are currently in production.
Batman: The Brave and the Bold Animated Series Ending, No Season Three
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Old August 19 2010, 06:55 AM   #2
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=125899

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Old August 19 2010, 03:39 PM   #3
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

As I recall, there is to be a half-length season 3, the last 13 episodes Tucker refers to in that quote, bringing the total to 65. So this thread is not only redundant, it's incorrect.
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Old August 19 2010, 04:04 PM   #4
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Christopher wrote: View Post
As I recall, there is to be a half-length season 3, the last 13 episodes Tucker refers to in that quote, bringing the total to 65. So this thread is not only redundant, it's incorrect.
But its heart is in the right place. I should know, 'cause I'm looking at the jar on my desk that holds it as I write...
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Old August 19 2010, 09:52 PM   #5
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Christopher wrote: View Post
As I recall, there is to be a half-length season 3, the last 13 episodes Tucker refers to in that quote, bringing the total to 65. So this thread is not only redundant, it's incorrect.

Blame it on the article.
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Old August 19 2010, 10:03 PM   #6
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

65 episodes isn't a bad run. That's only 20 less than "Batman: The Animated Series" (I consider "The New Batman Adventures" a different series even though the two shows shared actors, writers, and producers).
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Old August 19 2010, 10:18 PM   #7
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

65 episodes is your standard syndication package.
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Old August 20 2010, 12:15 AM   #8
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
65 episodes isn't a bad run.
It's not a great run either. TB&TB has created such a rich and refreshing universe that it feels arbitrary and wrong to bring it to an end after the bare minimum size of a syndication package is reached. At least they should pull a Ben 10 and repackage it in a modified form, say maybe a new Superfriends, so they can keep the universe alive.
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Old August 20 2010, 01:12 AM   #9
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

It's a great run from a commercial point of view, even if the show still had a lot of creative life left in it (although there are still about a third of the show's episodes to air, so the extent to which it still had room to run can't really be properly evaluated until after those episodes have all aired).

65 episodes is optimal for a syndication package, but it isn't the bare minimum. Shows with 52-episode runs (like Static Shock and X-Men Evolution) went into syndication. For that matter there have been 26-episode shows that have gone into syndication. In today's market 52 episodes is a success and 65 episodes is the gold standard.
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Old August 20 2010, 01:24 AM   #10
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

I thought 100 episodes was the standard. I guess it depends on the format since most syndicated series I know of are hour long live action series.
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Old August 20 2010, 01:29 AM   #11
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
It's a great run from a commercial point of view, even if the show still had a lot of creative life left in it (although there are still about a third of the show's episodes to air, so the extent to which it still had room to run can't really be properly evaluated until after those episodes have all aired).
So? How is it remotely a good thing to sacrifice creative potential for some kind of commercial tunnel vision? How is this something worthy of defending?


65 episodes is optimal for a syndication package, but it isn't the bare minimum. Shows with 52-episode runs (like Static Shock and X-Men Evolution) went into syndication. For that matter there have been 26-episode shows that have gone into syndication. In today's market 52 episodes is a success and 65 episodes is the gold standard.
It's still arbitrary and unnecessary to kill a show at that stage when there's still so much potential in it. The numbers are beside the point. Indeed, they're the whole problem. Basing the decision to end a show on nothing more than the number of episodes it has is just plain stupid. If it's a creative and ratings success, if it still has a lot of life in it, it's wrong to kill it.
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Old August 20 2010, 01:40 AM   #12
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

I started a topic about this weeks ago!

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=125899
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Old August 20 2010, 01:49 AM   #13
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Teelie wrote: View Post
I thought 100 episodes was the standard. I guess it depends on the format since most syndicated series I know of are hour long live action series.
100 episodes is what live action shows aim for. 65 episodes is what animated shows aim for.

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So? How is it remotely a good thing to sacrifice creative potential for some kind of commercial tunnel vision? How is this something worthy of defending?
I wasn't defending anything. I was pointing out facts, such as a 65-episode run being highly successful from a business point of view and the fact that the show still has a third of its episodes to air, meaning how much creative juice it has left at the end of its run can only be properly evaluated once they've all aired.

It's still arbitrary and unnecessary to kill a show at that stage when there's still so much potential in it. The numbers are beside the point. Indeed, they're the whole problem. Basing the decision to end a show on nothing more than the number of episodes it has is just plain stupid. If it's a creative and ratings success, if it still has a lot of life in it, it's wrong to kill it.
In some cases there are good commercial and creative reasons for working towards an established end goal of a certain number of episodes. It gives the creative team the opportunity to plan out a cohesive run and go out on a high before any burnout sets in. Producers working in animation also often get antsy to move on and do something different once they've made 52-65 episodes of a show. The extent to which these factors are true of The Brave and the Bold creative team would be speculative at this point, but its certainly possible they apply.
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Old August 20 2010, 04:28 AM   #14
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
In some cases there are good commercial and creative reasons for working towards an established end goal of a certain number of episodes. It gives the creative team the opportunity to plan out a cohesive run and go out on a high before any burnout sets in. Producers working in animation also often get antsy to move on and do something different once they've made 52-65 episodes of a show. The extent to which these factors are true of The Brave and the Bold creative team would be speculative at this point, but its certainly possible they apply.
I'd say it's self-evident that they don't. This isn't an arc-driven show. It has the occasional bit of character development across various appearances, and it has the ongoing Starro serial in the teasers this season, but it's pretty much the epitome of an open-ended episodic series. And it's got so many characters to draw on, such an immense reservoir of obscure DC heroes and villains to tap into, that there's no way they'd be anywhere close to running out of material after a mere 65 stories.

Now, if James Tucker felt he'd gotten creatively stale and wanted to move onto something fresh, that would be one thing. But that's not what I'm hearing. What I'm hearing is that Cartoon Network has arbitrarily decided that every show has to end at 65 episodes, or at least be rebranded at that point, as Ben 10 Alien Force was after 46 episodes. And my point is that basing it on numbers has nothing to do with the creators' preferences or storytelling needs. It's arbitrary and unnecessary.

The DC Animated Universe, even just in its core series of Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League, produced 306 episodes and 4 movies. Plus 78 episodes of the peripheral series Static Shock and The Zeta Project. Compared to that, 65 episodes is barely getting started. They shouldn't be ending this take on the DC Universe, they should be franchising it, giving us spinoffs. Heck, if any version of Aquaman in history could carry his own show, it's this one.

Besides, Diedrich Bader is the best Batman to come along since Conroy, though Bruce Greenwood has proved pretty impressive so far. It would be a shame if he didn't get to continue playing Batman in some context.
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Old August 20 2010, 04:42 AM   #15
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Re: Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Animated Series Ending-No Season 3

Christopher wrote: View Post
Too Much Fun wrote: View Post
65 episodes isn't a bad run.
It's not a great run either. TB&TB has created such a rich and refreshing universe that it feels arbitrary and wrong to bring it to an end after the bare minimum size of a syndication package is reached. At least they should pull a Ben 10 and repackage it in a modified form, say maybe a new Superfriends, so they can keep the universe alive.
A Batman and the Outsiders ( plus friends) series would be fun.
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