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Old August 16 2010, 12:26 AM   #106
M'Sharak
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
No more dial phones.
No more party lines (with the neighbor who might or might not be eavesdropping on your call.) And no more necessity for going through a long distance operator to place a call to grandma, who lives 2000 miles away in Ohio -- most people don't remember that there was a time when you couldn't just pick up the phone and call anywhere yourself.

Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
No more Belgian Congo, no more... never mind, won't try to catalog all the changes in the names and boundaries of nations, especially in Eastern Europe and Africa.
I remember the Belgian Congo still being on the world maps and globes in the classrooms, even though it had officially ceased to exist a few years before.

I also remember when we were still going to the moon (but wouldn't be there for a few years yet (and all the other places we were going to go, besides - somehow, those other trips never quite got taken.)
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Old August 16 2010, 12:34 AM   #107
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Goliath wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I disagree.
On what grounds?

If you say "it's a matter of semantics," you are claiming that BC/AD and BCE/CE are just different terms that mean the same things.

They aren't. BC and AD have religious meanings that BCE and CE do not, as I clearly indicated.
But her point is that they're still using Jesus' birth as the dividing line, regardless of the terminology used. If someone asked, "When did the Common Era begin?" the answer is still, "It started when Jesus was born."

Unless something else happened that year worth noting, it's still about Jesus.
I understand that. And as I said before, I don't have a problem with that: the birth of Jesus of Nazareth was an event of world-historical significance.

The problem, as I also said before, is that the terms "BC" and AD" are freighted with religious significance, rather than merely historical significance

People who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was Jesus Christ--that is to say, Jesus the Messiah--have objected to having to date things from "Before Christ".

Similarly, people who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is "the Lord" object to having to date things in "the year of the Lord."

Using either expression is tantamount to confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord.

To understand how objectionable that might be to some people, I ask others to consider how they might feel if they were expected to use the dating system adopted by the Church of Satan, in which this is the Year XLIV AS--that is to say, the forty-fourth year of Satan.

Or, consider my earlier suggestion to make the year 1543 the year zero. How would Christians on this board feel if they were expected, not only to use this year as an epoch, but to use the expressions "Religious Darkness (RD)" for years before zero, and "Scientific Enlightenment (SE)" for years afterward?

They wouldn't like that very much at all, I'd wager. And yet here we have people saying it's no big deal when others have to do something like that, and even saying that it's "silly" to object. In my opinion, that's a selfish and complacent position.

And while we're on the subject of "what has changed since you were in school"--CE and BCE are not new. Historians were already using them when I started university.
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Old August 16 2010, 12:46 AM   #108
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

Goliath wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Goliath wrote: View Post

On what grounds?

If you say "it's a matter of semantics," you are claiming that BC/AD and BCE/CE are just different terms that mean the same things.

They aren't. BC and AD have religious meanings that BCE and CE do not, as I clearly indicated.
But her point is that they're still using Jesus' birth as the dividing line, regardless of the terminology used. If someone asked, "When did the Common Era begin?" the answer is still, "It started when Jesus was born."

Unless something else happened that year worth noting, it's still about Jesus.
I understand that. And as I said before, I don't have a problem with that: the birth of Jesus of Nazareth was an event of world-historical significance.

The problem, as I also said before, is that the terms "BC" and AD" are freighted with religious significance, rather than merely historical significance

People who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was Jesus Christ--that is to say, Jesus the Messiah--have objected to having to date things from "Before Christ".

Similarly, people who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is "the Lord" object to having to date things in "the year of the Lord."

Using either expression is tantamount to confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord.

To understand how objectionable that might be to some people, I ask others to consider how they might feel if they were expected to use the dating system adopted by the Church of Satan, in which this is the Year XLIV AS--that is to say, the forty-fourth year of Satan.

Or, consider my earlier suggestion to make the year 1543 the year zero. How would Christians on this board feel if they were expected, not only to use this year as an epoch, but to use the expressions "Religious Darkness (RD)" for years before zero, and "Scientific Enlightenment (SE)" for years afterward?

They wouldn't like that very much at all, I'd wager. And yet here we have people saying it's no big deal when others have to do something like that, and even saying that it's "silly" to object. In my opinion, that's a selfish and complacent position.
Yet it uses the supposed birth year of Jesus as the dividing line... You are not really debunking TSQ's posts about this issue.
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Old August 16 2010, 12:48 AM   #109
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Tora Ziyal wrote: View Post
No more Belgian Congo, no more... never mind, won't try to catalog all the changes in the names and boundaries of nations, especially in Eastern Europe and Africa.
I remember the Belgian Congo still being on the world maps and globes in the classrooms, even though it had officially ceased to exist a few years before.
Some of the atlases at my junior high-school were so old they still showed things like "French North Africa."
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Old August 16 2010, 12:50 AM   #110
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

Finn wrote: View Post
Yet it uses the supposed birth year of Jesus as the dividing line... You are not really debunking TSQ's posts about this issue.


Are you being deliberately obtuse?
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Old August 16 2010, 01:25 AM   #111
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

I remember the two library field trips: one to learn the Dewey Decimal system, and one to learn the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature. Now my kid just Googles everything and watches historical documentary posted in pieces on You Tube.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:34 AM   #112
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

When I was first entering high school, Microsoft had just released Encarta Encyclopedia on CD the previous year. We were all fascinated (well... those of us who enjoyed knowledge), and knew that THIS was the way of the future, the way it would be from that time onward. Little did we know a scant 5 years later, that method would start to become obsolete.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:38 AM   #113
apenpaap
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Goliath wrote: View Post
thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I disagree.
On what grounds?

If you say "it's a matter of semantics," you are claiming that BC/AD and BCE/CE are just different terms that mean the same things.

They aren't. BC and AD have religious meanings that BCE and CE do not, as I clearly indicated.
But her point is that they're still using Jesus' birth as the dividing line, regardless of the terminology used. If someone asked, "When did the Common Era begin?" the answer is still, "It started when Jesus was born."
Actually it started five years after he was born thanks to a little calculating error a monk in the 6th century made.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:45 AM   #114
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

Ordinary people buy individual serving sized bottled water. It is now impossible to get out of walking distance of a McDonalds restaurant.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:45 AM   #115
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

apenpaap wrote: View Post
Actually it started five years after he was born thanks to a little calculating error a monk in the 6th century made.
Yes, I believe he was known as Dennis the Short (no relation to Martin the Short or Bobby the Short).
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Old August 16 2010, 02:03 AM   #116
George
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

A lot of things have changed - Burma is Myanmar, Kalkutta is Kolkata, Bombay is Mumbay, and also the Indo-Pakistani War and the Vietnam War are both over... ...crazy how things happen so soon.
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Old August 16 2010, 02:03 AM   #117
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School



I think it works better without the fourth panel, but what do I know?
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Old August 16 2010, 02:47 AM   #118
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

George wrote: View Post
A lot of things have changed - Burma is Myanmar, Kalkutta is Kolkata, Bombay is Mumbay . . .
I've always spelled it Calcutta. And when did Bombay change its name? That's news to me.

I do remember when Peking became Beijing, and the romanization of Chinese names changed so that Mao Tse-Tung became Mao Zedong.

When I graduated from high school, China was still called Red China, wasn't a member of the U.N., and wasn't diplomatically recognized by the United States. Official U.S. policy was that the Nationalists on Taiwan (which many still called Formosa) were the legitimate government of China, even though the Communists had controlled the mainland for 25 years. Talk about denial!
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Old August 16 2010, 02:52 AM   #119
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

scotpens wrote: View Post
Official U.S. policy was that the Nationalists on Taiwan (which many still called Formosa) were the legitimate government of China, even though the Communists had controlled the mainland for 25 years. Talk about denial!
I still consider the United States to be a rogue province of the British Empire.
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Old August 16 2010, 02:58 AM   #120
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Re: Things that have Changed Since You were in School

Finn wrote: View Post
Goliath wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
But her point is that they're still using Jesus' birth as the dividing line, regardless of the terminology used. If someone asked, "When did the Common Era begin?" the answer is still, "It started when Jesus was born."

Unless something else happened that year worth noting, it's still about Jesus.
I understand that. And as I said before, I don't have a problem with that: the birth of Jesus of Nazareth was an event of world-historical significance.

The problem, as I also said before, is that the terms "BC" and AD" are freighted with religious significance, rather than merely historical significance

People who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was Jesus Christ--that is to say, Jesus the Messiah--have objected to having to date things from "Before Christ".

Similarly, people who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is "the Lord" object to having to date things in "the year of the Lord."

Using either expression is tantamount to confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord.

To understand how objectionable that might be to some people, I ask others to consider how they might feel if they were expected to use the dating system adopted by the Church of Satan, in which this is the Year XLIV AS--that is to say, the forty-fourth year of Satan.

Or, consider my earlier suggestion to make the year 1543 the year zero. How would Christians on this board feel if they were expected, not only to use this year as an epoch, but to use the expressions "Religious Darkness (RD)" for years before zero, and "Scientific Enlightenment (SE)" for years afterward?

They wouldn't like that very much at all, I'd wager. And yet here we have people saying it's no big deal when others have to do something like that, and even saying that it's "silly" to object. In my opinion, that's a selfish and complacent position.
Yet it uses the supposed birth year of Jesus as the dividing line... You are not really debunking TSQ's posts about this issue.
Exactly. It's debatable whether Jesus really even existed. It's far more likely that he is a conglomeration of different older gods and legends, after all. Jesus isn't as sound a historical figure as many think. You're trying to separate the religion from the "man," which simply cannot be done. The story of Jesus affected society through religion, and by no other means. That is why it is a matter of semantics.
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