RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,605
Posts: 5,425,334
Members: 24,806
Currently online: 581
Newest member: Mudang Harada

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Inception ends with
reality 58 65.17%
dream 27 30.34%
other 4 4.49%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 9 2010, 07:30 PM   #76
coolghoul
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Doorstep of 4, Privet Drive
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

^ Actually the more I think about the reasons put forth by everybody, the more I think it *must* be reality. And then I get more confused as to why Nolan would choose to end on the reality/dream question-mark. It makes it nothing more than an affectation rather than any genuine conundrum.

And therefore I go back to the there-must-be-more-reasons-for-it-to-be-a-dream way of thinking... But what? Except that he deliberately sets that up.
__________________
Completely Loony for Luna and Ginny!
coolghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2010, 07:30 PM   #77
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

^I maintain my theory that Nolan is mean. He knows it's real, but he wanted an ending that makes the audience go, "Aaaaaaawwww!" I mean, the entire theater laughed out loud when it ended because the top falling/not falling thing was just over-the-top (no pun intended) enough to be funny.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2010, 07:40 PM   #78
CaptainCanada
Admiral
 
CaptainCanada's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Nolan intends for people to be guessing, and he's unlikely to ever say which interpretation is correct (great artists know it's best to leave things like that ambiguous, to keep people talking), so to me it comes down to which interpretation you think makes the most sense for the movie.

I'll start by saying that I discount the various theories about how the whole movie was a dream or some kind of elaborate alternate inception, etc., because you really can't argue about that either way and it would sort of make the whole thing pointless. I focus solely on whether he woke up or not at the end.

I would say he did, simply because I think it's much more consistent with Cobb's character arc leading up to it; for most of the movie, he's descending, he has the big climactic confrontation with Mal, and the point of his rejection of her and his speech about it is that he recognizes that she's not real and refuses to accept dreams. To have him then turn around and fall into a dream kind of voids his whole character arc.
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

- Homer Simpson
CaptainCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2010, 07:41 PM   #79
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

coolghoul wrote: View Post
^ Actually the more I think about the reasons put forth by everybody, the more I think it *must* be reality. And then I get more confused as to why Nolan would choose to end on the reality/dream question-mark. It makes it nothing more than an affectation rather than any genuine conundrum.

And therefore I go back to the there-must-be-more-reasons-for-it-to-be-a-dream way of thinking... But what? Except that he deliberately sets that up.
I think he puts the doubt in there just for the question mark, just to start discussion. Look at this very forum, three, four threads on this movie and in them discussion on whether or not people thought the ending was in "reality" or still in the "dream"? We couldn't have this disucssion if the ending was obvious and clear-cut. That's great film-making, something as simple as the white-flash at the end of "Total Recall" is the movie the "real world" or was it the memory implant Quaid had paid for?

Watch Inception and how you want to view the ending is all going to be on how you read the movie as a whole, your own idea of what is real and not real and, I suppose, also your idea on whether or not "happy endings" are genuine.

One of my co-workers loves unhappy endings. He's not seen this yet but he'd likely advocate for the ending being Cobb stuck in Limbo/Dreamland and he'd likely precieve the totem as being in perpetual spin. Nolan cut-off the ending just in time to give doubt. Some see the wobble, some don't. Some see the wobble as being just part of the top's spin some see it as a sign the top is about to fail.

Some see the age, and clothing, difference in the children between the ending and the visions, some don't. (The children are close-enough in age that they look "alike" but after three viewings the children are pretty differently clothed not to mention noticably older, especially in the girl. In the memories the daughter looks to be about the age of pre-schooler or kindergartner at the end she's noticably taller and older by a couple of years and in different clothes.)

Some think that him seeing his children is really his "totem" and what's going to happen to the top doesn't matter he knows he's in the real world. Some see that him being in a dream would make the entire movie pointless, mean that Mal had "won" and that Cobb is in his own nightmare in a dream he himself said wouldn't be good enough for him. He wanted reality.

But, some see the ending as being Cobb in the dream.

That's what good film-making is, ending the movie in such a manner to raise question and doubt no matter what the ending "really is" or what Nolan intended.
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2010, 08:21 PM   #80
coolghoul
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Doorstep of 4, Privet Drive
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
coolghoul wrote: View Post
^ Actually the more I think about the reasons put forth by everybody, the more I think it *must* be reality. And then I get more confused as to why Nolan would choose to end on the reality/dream question-mark. It makes it nothing more than an affectation rather than any genuine conundrum.

And therefore I go back to the there-must-be-more-reasons-for-it-to-be-a-dream way of thinking... But what? Except that he deliberately sets that up.
I think he puts the doubt in there just for the question mark, just to start discussion. Look at this very forum, three, four threads on this movie and in them discussion on whether or not people thought the ending was in "reality" or still in the "dream"? We couldn't have this disucssion if the ending was obvious and clear-cut. That's great film-making, something as simple as the white-flash at the end of "Total Recall" is the movie the "real world" or was it the memory implant Quaid had paid for?
Actually Total Recall is better in that regards. You can never know one way or the other whether he truly had that adventure or it was the excellent adventure-vacation from Total Recall playing out forever and even in his mind. (Unless you get told by the creator/writer - kinda like what Ridley Scott did with Bladerunner)

In this case, I don't think there's any doubt in *your* mind, (once you've thought it thru) that this is reality.

Can you actually formulate a good reason for it being a dream and "make it stick"? I *see* the evidence of it being a dream/limbo there - children not really changing, Caine at the airport, us not seeing how Cobb woke up thru the levels, all the way down to the top which spins for an inordinately long time and seems to "fix" it's wobble about 3 times (from what I remember from that one-time viewing). But what are the *reasons* for it being a dream? All of them are unsatisfactory. Either Cobb is still in limbo or he has returned to the "real" level from the movie - but now that level is a dream. Why is that? All of it is "unreasonably unfathomable" (in short, is there a theory which can explain what is happening without being "it-just-is-a-dream" at some level?)
__________________
Completely Loony for Luna and Ginny!
coolghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 13 2010, 07:29 AM   #81
Flux Capacitor
Rear Admiral
 
Flux Capacitor's Avatar
 
Location: SPACESHIP!
Send a message via AIM to Flux Capacitor
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Having seen the movie multiple times and having some rather in depth discussions with those who I've seen it with, I'm going to go with: There is no straight answer to whether or not the end was in reality or a dream, and Nolan wanted it that way. In this thread we've been touching on various aspects of the scenes that make us believe it might be one or the other, but there is never any real hard evidence. For example, you'll notice that Cobb only wears his wedding ring when he in in a dream. In reality, he doesn't. Now in the final scene, look for a clear shot of Cobb's left hand. There isn't one.

His kids turned around, and he could see their faces. I think that alone proved to him that it was real
It actually proves very little. Throughout the movie, Cobb refuses to look at their faces because he knows they aren't real. Now, remember what Mal says in the house when she's holding Fischer hostage at the end? When she says it's not about what you know, but what you believe? And in the same scene, Cobb finally lets go of his guilt, and lets go of Mal. Without the guilt, in his mind he is free to see his children again. The "charges" have been lifted. So all it takes is for him to believe that he is in reality and back home for him to be able to see his kids.

We can tell that he no longer cares about whether or not he knows what is real and what is not when he neglects to watch the top to see whether or not it falls. I mean, this is a man who was sitting with gun in hand ready to shoot himself if the top never stopped spinning in the first half of the film...and now he's content to just walk away?

In short, I'm inclined to think that he was indeed still dreaming and in limbo...but the real answer is that there is no answer, and that is the brilliance of the film. We're given two distinct possibilities but no definitive proof in favor of one or the other.

An another note, I notied some other folkes were confused as to how the top came in to play with Cobb planting the idea into Mal's mind. Basically, the top was a symbolic representation of her knowing what is real and what isn't, and she locked it away, out of reach. Since the top is used to prove to her that she's dreaming, locking it away effectively prevents her from reminding herself. So, when Cobb breaks in and makes it spin, he reintroduced the idea that her world is not real into her mind...but of course it carried on into reality.

That's really what the whole theme of the film was; the difference between believing something to be true versus knowing...sometimes you don't need to know as long as you believe.
__________________
"I'm a fan of good sci-fi. Star Trek. Battlestar. That Joss Whedon show." - Nathan Fillion, Castle
Flux Capacitor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18 2010, 05:51 AM   #82
Nowhere Man
Commodore
 
Location: Nowhere Land
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Gep Malakai wrote: View Post
I voted dream, not because I like that interpretation or think it was necessary for the story, but because Cobb's children hadn't changed a bit from his memory earlier in the film. Yeah, I know it could be symbolic or simplified for audience understanding, but children that young grow up fast, and we know he'd been on the run for some considerable length of time (long enough to get a string of jobs extracting, and to establish a reputation for himself doing so). I find it implausible to the point of absurdity for him to return home in reality and find his children looking, dressing and acting exactly the same as the last moment he saw them. Plus that top was spinning for an awfully long time...
I just got back from the movie and this was my exact thought. I don't know if the whole entire movie is a dream or just when he woke up on the plane. I'm thinkinole movie was a dream and that would make it a 4th level beyond "Limbo". That could mean heually in a coma and Mal is actually alive. There's no way his kids would be wearing the same exact clothes and in the same position as when he left. The thing is, the top looked like it wasen't anywhere near falling. I also want to point out that Nolan could have been puposely showing us the answer the whole time. The Prestigue gave us clues throughout the whole movie. Everyone assumes that he wants to leave it up to the audience, but what he really wants to give us the answer? I don't know what's reality now.

Last edited by Hell Billy Rage; August 18 2010 at 06:17 AM.
Nowhere Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19 2010, 01:04 AM   #83
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Police State
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

HunterB5446 wrote: View Post
There's no way his kids would be wearing the same exact clothes and in the same position as when he left.
As posted above, they're not the exact same clothes.
__________________
"Your advertising's just dandy. Folks'd never guess you ain't got a thing to sell."
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19 2010, 01:26 AM   #84
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

They're only vaugely the same clothes. But, yes, they are very different. As I've said many times before I think the ending being a dream sort of cheats us out of Cobb's character arc and what he wants. He's been comitted to getting back to his children and seeing them in his dreams wasn't good enough for him. But the children are very clearly in different clothes and appear to even be a bit older. He's clearly not been gone long.

The ending being a dream sort-of makes his whole arc -and the whole movie- pointless. The whole mission was to get back to his kids, it's why he took it and it's why he didn't want them to turn around in his dreams. Dreaming them simply wasn't good enough. It's a kick to his balls to make them still a dream at the end of the movie when he thinks he has won.

He also makes the point of telling Ellen Page that you never see a dream from it's begining, you simply drop into the middle of it. This is shown nicely in the movie he recalls being on the plane, his landing, going through security, driving home, and then entering his home. He's not simply dropped into being home with the kids.

For my money, the ending is real for it not to be is to defeat all of his character motivation and his "prize" for getting it done is to not have what he wanted? Depressing.

I will, however, argue that at the end of the movie he's "as back in reality as much as we thought he was in the whole time anyway."
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19 2010, 08:30 AM   #85
Ryan
Commodore
 
Location: Lincoln, NE
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
He also makes the point of telling Ellen Page that you never see a dream from it's begining, you simply drop into the middle of it. This is shown nicely in the movie he recalls being on the plane, his landing, going through security, driving home, and then entering his home. He's not simply dropped into being home with the kids.
The jump would be from limbo to the plane. Cobb also seemed to be referring to the start of the dream. Everything we saw within the dreams appeared to have people moving around like normal.

And that's the really cool thing about Inception: so much of the movie lends itself to various interpretations. I believe the narrative and Cobb's story ark demand the ending be reality (notice how he never spends time in his dreams with his children, only Mal) but a person can believe whatever they like.
Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19 2010, 11:35 AM   #86
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Ryan wrote: View Post
The jump would be from limbo to the plane. Cobb also seemed to be referring to the start of the dream. Everything we saw within the dreams appeared to have people moving around like normal.
When doing the "Dream Orientation" with Adrianne he says to her "You never really remember the begining of the dream, do you? Let me ask you how did we get to this cafe?"

This seems to apply through the climax dreams where the characters when they start each new "level" they're simply dropped into a situation. In the car, on the street, suddenly in the hotel in their various positions (the one dude as a hot, blonde, twilight vampire), on the mountain top guns at the ready. With the ending scene Cobb's not dropped into the middle of anything, he's "dropped into" waking up on the plane. Where he'd expect to be if he woke up and he remembers every step along the way between there and walking into his home with his older children.
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20 2010, 01:37 AM   #87
Ryan
Commodore
 
Location: Lincoln, NE
Re: vote on Inception's ending (spoilers obviously)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
This seems to apply through the climax dreams where the characters when they start each new "level" they're simply dropped into a situation.
I'm not sure how you can argue that isn't exactly what happened from the audience perspective.

It's certainly not much different than what we saw before. The scenes where Cobb tests Adriane then begins explaining dream-share to her appear seamless to us as an audience too.
Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
christopher nolan, inception

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.