Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory

Solarbaby · July 30 2010, 12:55 PM

When Janeway enters the artificial environment she says to Fear that she isn't on the system. That she's a holographic version of herself. That's why Fear has no control over her. But I never saw any mention of them altering the pods for her to do this.

Was she bluffing? I think it would have made more sense if she was. And using the fear of becoming extinct to scare Fear himself would be better than a tech solution like sending a hologram of Janeway into the environment

It's a confusing episode for me. I'm not sure I understood it correctly

Adm_Hawthorne · July 30 2010, 01:12 PM

It's not that she's not entering the system. She was hooked up the system, but she was not in stasis.

It takes a little while for the AI/computer system to actually read Janeway's thoughts. Until that time comes, the system can only recognize that it has a certain person hooked up to it.

Janeway and the others were betting that the system would assume the person it was seeing was the real Janeway because it could 'feel' her in the system even though it couldn't sense her thoughts yet.

Toward the end, the system finally senses Janeway's actual thoughts and realizes that it's been had.

There was no bluff about whether she was hooked up to the system. She was.

But, because she wasn't in stasis, her consciousness was not trapped in the clown's world.

The only way fear was going to let everyone else go is if Janeway came into his world. So, there had to be some sort 'visual' the clown could see. That's why the rouse, and that's why they used a holographic Janeway.

Ensign Johnson · August 2 2010, 08:12 PM

I watched this episode again the other day, has to be the creepiest Voyager episode (and I'm not even afraid of clowns). I figured they didn't show us too much of the planning to keep it a surprise. Janeway was rather theatrical in this episode which I liked. Even though I'd seen the episode before I still couldn't remember how she was going to trick fear.

T.D. Possum · August 2 2010, 08:17 PM

It has kind of an old-school TOS creepiness about it for sure.

henbane · August 3 2010, 02:03 AM

Agree AMG - loved this episode for the old-school TOS-type creepiness....nothing like a carnival atmosphere and a naughty clown to stimulate the coulrophobia in most of us.

JanewayRulz! · August 3 2010, 02:31 AM

And nothing like the Auburn Queen coming in to not only save the day, but to teach that naughty clown he threatened the wrong Captain's crew!

T.D. Possum · August 3 2010, 02:41 AM

Y'all know that clown is Lenny from "Laverne & Shirley", right? Somehow, that made him even creepier to me.

Red Ranger · August 3 2010, 05:54 AM

This is one of my favorite VOY eps. I like the final moment when the clown says, "I'm afraid," and holo-Janeway whispers, "I knowwww." BTW, I believe Michael McKean (the clown) is married to Kate Mulgrew.

Guy Gardener · August 3 2010, 06:07 AM

You'd better not tell Annette O'Tool about that.

Imagine using the Clown as a weapon against the Borg supereclipsing their insidious hivemind with his own will.

I am not Spock · August 3 2010, 08:38 AM

I liked the Thaw. It was a clever episode, and it did have a very TOS esque feel to it. And it didn't rely on expensive visual FX and explosions. Sometimes the best Trek comes in low key packages, not in big shiny ones.

I thought the Clown was a very creepy character, almost Joker-ish. But in the psychotic Joker mode, not the trickster mode.

JanewayRulz! · August 3 2010, 11:43 AM

This is one of my favorite VOY eps. I like the final moment when the clown says, "I'm afraid," and holo-Janeway whispers, "I knowwww." BTW, I believe Michael McKean (the clown) is married to Kate Mulgrew.

Tim Hagan, the Cleveland Politician, is married to Kate Mulgrew.

Mike just "wishes" he was.

Guy Gardener · August 3 2010, 11:51 AM

JanewayRulz! wrote:

This is one of my favorite VOY eps. I like the final moment when the clown says, "I'm afraid," and holo-Janeway whispers, "I knowwww." BTW, I believe Michael McKean (the clown) is married to Kate Mulgrew.

Tim Hagan, the Cleveland Politician, is married to Kate Mulgrew.

Mike just "wishes" he was.

If after a million million years that he might be a little tired of sharing a bathroom with Annette O'Toole, I suppose that that is almost possible.

Python Trek · August 3 2010, 11:54 AM

The Thaw is one of VOY's best. It's definitely in my VOY Top Ten.

Adm_Hawthorne · August 3 2010, 01:19 PM

I am not Spock wrote:

I liked the Thaw. It was a clever episode, and it did have a very TOS esque feel to it. And it didn't rely on expensive visual FX and explosions. Sometimes the best Trek comes in low key packages, not in big shiny ones.

I thought the Clown was a very creepy character, almost Joker-ish. But in the psychotic Joker mode, not the trickster mode.

Joker at his best is when he's psycho, like when he shot Barbara Gordon and tortured her father in the funhouse. Yeah... *shivers*

Fear, the clown, was creepy on a different level though. Where The Joker creeps us out because you don't know what the heck he's going to do next, Fear plays on, well, fear. We know what he's going to do. He's going to try to scare us.

It's like watching a scary movie.

Purdy Bear · August 3 2010, 01:48 PM

If you look at the episode right at the beginning, Janeway turns to B'elana (sorry brain isnt working today for spelling) and asks her to find away she can be in the programme without being physically effected.

I think this is an awesome episode, it teaches so much about Fear itself.

July 30 2010, 12:55 PM	#1
Solarbaby Fleet Captain Location: solarbaby	Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory When Janeway enters the artificial environment she says to Fear that she isn't on the system. That she's a holographic version of herself. That's why Fear has no control over her. But I never saw any mention of them altering the pods for her to do this. Was she bluffing? I think it would have made more sense if she was. And using the fear of becoming extinct to scare Fear himself would be better than a tech solution like sending a hologram of Janeway into the environment It's a confusing episode for me. I'm not sure I understood it correctly __________________ Voice actors needed for Star Trek: Absolution animated series coming 2013 https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekAbsolution1?fref=ts

July 30 2010, 01:12 PM	#2
Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Location: Not really sure anymore	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory It's not that she's not entering the system. She was hooked up the system, but she was not in stasis. It takes a little while for the AI/computer system to actually read Janeway's thoughts. Until that time comes, the system can only recognize that it has a certain person hooked up to it. Janeway and the others were betting that the system would assume the person it was seeing was the real Janeway because it could 'feel' her in the system even though it couldn't sense her thoughts yet. Toward the end, the system finally senses Janeway's actual thoughts and realizes that it's been had. There was no bluff about whether she was hooked up to the system. She was. But, because she wasn't in stasis, her consciousness was not trapped in the clown's world. The only way fear was going to let everyone else go is if Janeway came into his world. So, there had to be some sort 'visual' the clown could see. That's why the rouse, and that's why they used a holographic Janeway. __________________ My fanfiction -> You've been warned My Card

August 2 2010, 08:12 PM	#3
Ensign Johnson Lieutenant Commander Location: Wales, UK	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory I watched this episode again the other day, has to be the creepiest Voyager episode (and I'm not even afraid of clowns). I figured they didn't show us too much of the planning to keep it a surprise. Janeway was rather theatrical in this episode which I liked. Even though I'd seen the episode before I still couldn't remember how she was going to trick fear.

August 2 2010, 08:17 PM	#4
T.D. Possum Commodore Location: Jelly (Baby) Fridge	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory It has kind of an old-school TOS creepiness about it for sure.

August 3 2010, 02:03 AM	#5
henbane Lieutenant Commander	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory Agree AMG - loved this episode for the old-school TOS-type creepiness....nothing like a carnival atmosphere and a naughty clown to stimulate the coulrophobia in most of us.

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August 3 2010, 02:31 AM	#6
JanewayRulz! Rear Admiral Location: North America	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory And nothing like the Auburn Queen coming in to not only save the day, but to teach that naughty clown he threatened the wrong Captain's crew!

August 3 2010, 02:41 AM	#7
T.D. Possum Commodore Location: Jelly (Baby) Fridge	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory Y'all know that clown is Lenny from "Laverne & Shirley", right? Somehow, that made him even creepier to me.

August 3 2010, 05:54 AM	#8
Red Ranger Admiral Location: New York City, the greatest city in the world!	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory This is one of my favorite VOY eps. I like the final moment when the clown says, "I'm afraid," and holo-Janeway whispers, "I knowwww." BTW, I believe Michael McKean (the clown) is married to Kate Mulgrew. __________________ "I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!" "I would make this war as severe as possible, and show no symptoms of tiring till the South begs for mercy." -- William Tecumseh Sherman

August 3 2010, 06:07 AM	#9
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory You'd better not tell Annette O'Tool about that. Imagine using the Clown as a weapon against the Borg supereclipsing their insidious hivemind with his own will. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

August 3 2010, 08:38 AM	#10
I am not Spock Commodore Location: Australia	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory I liked the Thaw. It was a clever episode, and it did have a very TOS esque feel to it. And it didn't rely on expensive visual FX and explosions. Sometimes the best Trek comes in low key packages, not in big shiny ones. I thought the Clown was a very creepy character, almost Joker-ish. But in the psychotic Joker mode, not the trickster mode. __________________ It's a FAAAAKKKEEE! Senator Vreenak- In the Pale Moonlight

August 3 2010, 11:54 AM	#13
Python Trek Commodore Location: West Consin, People's Republic of America	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory The Thaw is one of VOY's best. It's definitely in my VOY Top Ten. __________________ Insert Siggie Here..........

August 3 2010, 01:48 PM	#15
Purdy Bear Lieutenant Commander Location: Voyagers QM Stores	Re: Question on Thaw and Janeway's victory If you look at the episode right at the beginning, Janeway turns to B'elana (sorry brain isnt working today for spelling) and asks her to find away she can be in the programme without being physically effected. I think this is an awesome episode, it teaches so much about Fear itself.