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Old July 31 2010, 02:51 AM   #436
T'Baio
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Is that really what counts as a clever twist ending nowadays?
The film didn't have a twist ending and I don't believe it was ever going for one.

You can't fault the film for what marketers try and cook up or what stupid people believe.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
And no offence, but you think that is sheer brilliance, but the film wasn't? That's the easiest joke...
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Old July 31 2010, 03:20 AM   #437
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Or just toss that silly rule in the wastebasket. One of the flaws of the movie is that the rules the screenwriters were inventing got in the way of making a good story, chiefly by bogging down the narrative with boring scenes of characters standing around explaining the rules to each other.
Part of making a good story is restricting your heroes as much as possible, and given your villians as much little restriction as possible. So "tossing that rule in the wastebasket" would pretty much mean our heroes could say, "This is a dream we can do whatever we want! Bring on the War Hammer Dinosaurs!!!" Sorry, it's a bit dumb to criticize a movie for keeping, mostly, within the bounds of its own established rules simply because you think car chases and gun-fights are more boring that some other extravagant means of eluding the bad guys. This is why a good Superman story is hard to pull off without bringing in Superpowered villians from his rouges gallery or kryptoniote. Superman is so much more powerful than his mundane foes that it's hard to make good conflict with him. If our heroes in this movie could just do whatever they want in the dream world then there's no tension or drama because, well, they're invincible.

Leo tells Page's character when training her not to change too much, too drasticly, too fast because it tips the subject off that something isn't right, makes the dream more unstable and more likely the subject will reject the infiltration and wake up.

For instance, how about this rule: when a person is dreaming, they forget what the rules of the real world are. If they see a fellow passenger in a car conjure a T-Rex from thin air to chomp the car ahead of them, they accept that as a natural part of their world.
Or how about this rule: In the dreams they can make magical lepercauns that can reprogram the individual by opening up a Mac Classic? That's wasn't the rules the movie established in itself. Again, it's dumb to criticize a movie because its internal logic doesn't match-up with what you think it should be. You seem to have ths problem a lot of the time not liking something fairly rational that a movie/show-maker comes up and then saying they should of done something compltely absurd instead. Why didn't they conjure up a T-Rex from thin-air to chomp the bad guys? Because that would be dumb and wouldn't have fit the tone of the movie.

Because that's how dreams actually work. People don't suddenly wake up from dreams every time they see something that wouldn't happen in real life. If that were true, how would anyone get any sleep?
You obviously were not paying attention during the movie. First of how dreams "really work" varies greatly from person to person. Further it depends on the dreamer how mundane, surreal, or fantastic the dream is.

Amd it's not that the person "suddenly wakes up" when they see something out of place/realize it's a dream. It's that they become more aware that they're in a dream and are able to either change the dream world or simply cause themselves to wake up or become aware that they're not the one in control of the dream and that they're being infiltrated. Haven't you ever been in a dream or nightmare that you didn't like and been able to disolve it, change it into something preferable or simply just get yourself out of it and wake up? That's what happening here. Wantabe in the opening scenes realized he was in a dream world and that Leo and company were trying Extraction on him so he was able to force himself awake to stop it, it's also what occurs in the hotel bar scene with Leo and Murphy. The dream world was starting to fall apart because Murphy realized he was in a dream, Leo was telling him that he (Murphy) was in danger but Leo was able to coax Murphy into calming down and maintaing the dream world.
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Old July 31 2010, 09:40 AM   #438
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I figured out about halfway thru the movie that the whole twist ending would be "was Moll right after all" and really hoped it wouldn't be so frakkin depressingly obvious. Is that really what counts as a clever twist ending nowadays?
There is no twist ending, it's not a trick film, it doesn't play games with you. It's a character piece. You don't get brownie points for figuring out the ending.
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Old July 31 2010, 02:09 PM   #439
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I figured out about halfway thru the movie that the whole twist ending would be "was Moll right after all" and really hoped it wouldn't be so frakkin depressingly obvious. Is that really what counts as a clever twist ending nowadays?
There is no twist ending, it's not a trick film, it doesn't play games with you. It's a character piece. You don't get brownie points for figuring out the ending.
Who says Mal was right? Cobb wasn't wearing his wedding ring, the top looked as it if was about to fall, and if you listen during the credits you hear it fall.
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Old July 31 2010, 02:28 PM   #440
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
Who says Mal was right? Cobb wasn't wearing his wedding ring, the top looked as it if was about to fall, and if you listen during the credits you hear it fall.
I don't think it really matters. In my opinion, the ending is less about the trivial matter of whether the whole film is a dream or not and more about what we the audience think about redemption and what people have to do to deserve it.
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Old July 31 2010, 02:32 PM   #441
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Bob the Skutter wrote: View Post
Who says Mal was right? Cobb wasn't wearing his wedding ring, the top looked as it if was about to fall, and if you listen during the credits you hear it fall.
I don't think it really matters. In my opinion, the ending is less about the trivial matter of whether the whole film is a dream or not and more about what we the audience think about redemption and what people have to do to deserve it.
I wouldn't disagree with you about the "truth" of the situation not mattering.
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Old August 1 2010, 12:17 AM   #442
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

scnj wrote: View Post
several were texting or tweeting throughout
Disgusting.

scnj wrote:
When Watchmen came out a man around 25 or so burst out halfway through "this is slow as fuck, no way I'm gonna see the sequel".
Hilarious.

No way I'm gonna see it either.

But for a different reason.
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Old August 1 2010, 01:55 AM   #443
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Just saw the film and enjoyed it. Like most of Nolan's films, it didn't quite blow me away but it kept me engaged. Loved some of the effects, like the city folding over on itself. The central character story was quite predictable, though.

One thing I will say: Nolan has definitely improved with action scenes. That will pay off well with the next Batman, I'm sure.
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Old August 2 2010, 03:25 PM   #444
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Any thoughts on the following?

What happened to Cobb's totem? Did we see it? All we see is what he says is Mal's totem, and he appears to treat it as though it's his own.

Is it significant that Nolan cast the same actress (Marion Cotillard) who played Edith Piaf in "La Vie En Rose" as Mal -- given that the theme music to "Inception" is based on "Je ne regrette rien" played at 1/10 speed and the song is used to send signals between levels?
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Old August 2 2010, 03:46 PM   #445
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

^He said in an interview that was a coincidence.
I assume that he just started using her totem, since she was dead there's still no one who knew the feel of it other than him.
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Old August 2 2010, 03:46 PM   #446
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Great Mambo Chicken wrote: View Post
What happened to Cobb's totem? Did we see it? All we see is what he says is Mal's totem, and he appears to treat it as though it's his own.
We never do find out what Cobb's original totem was. Some people have speculated it's his wedding ring but that doesn't work since it only shows up in the dream world and appears not to be with Cobb in reality.

Rule wise it seems okay for him to use Mal's totem. The only guideline appears to be no one else alive should know it well enough to duplicate it in the dream world. Plus you get the added bonus of it adding a ton of subtext.

Is it significant that Nolan cast the same actress (Marion Cotillard) who played Edith Piaf in "La Vie En Rose" as Mal -- given that the theme music to "Inception" is based on "Je ne regrette rien" played at 1/10 speed and the song is used to send signals between levels?
It's apparently just a coincidence. Nolan wanted to dump Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien after Cotillard was cast but Hans Zimmer talked him out of it.
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Old August 2 2010, 03:59 PM   #447
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

average. cool concept. however, too many explosions and poorly executed action sequences (Nolan has improved from TDK, but that's not saying much). The limbo thing was stupid. Acting all around was meh. It simply wasn't all that much fun to watch. Overhyped would be an understatement and it blows my mind peeps are actually debating the ending. A decent flick, but not even close to being great or the years best. Not worth more than paying a matinee price for
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Old August 2 2010, 04:53 PM   #448
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Great Mambo Chicken wrote: View Post
What happened to Cobb's totem? Did we see it? All we see is what he says is Mal's totem, and he appears to treat it as though it's his own.
I had wondered that, too. A quick search of the threads at IMDb a few days ago turned up someone who said that Cobb hadn't had one of his own because the totems were Mal's idea and hers was the first one. But I've only seen the movie once myself, so I can't confirm that personally. I don't remember hearing him say that. It would make sense, though.
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Old August 3 2010, 08:03 PM   #449
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Darn you beat me to it. I love the ending
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Old August 4 2010, 12:06 AM   #450
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Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

First of how dreams "really work" varies greatly from person to person.
You mean there are people in the world who never have dreams where physically impossible things happen? Every dream they've ever had in their lives adheres strictly to the mundane logic of real life?

I think the general rules of the game for real-world dreams are the same from one human to another. If this is not true, please link to the scientific studies that show that. This would be rather startling info and I would think it would be well known. There might be a few random cases of people whose dreams never deviate from the rules of the real world, but they would be bizarre psychological outliers.

Unlike you, I don't see any reason to give credence to the arbitrary rules Nolan pulled out of his ass for this movie. They were obviously cobbled together for one purpose: to create a summer blockbuster movie with the familiar attributes - car chases, video-game type "levels", explosions, etc - that would please the average movie watcher and not challenge or scare them too profoundly.

It was an okay flick but not nearly worth all the fanboy drooling on the internet. The artificial mechanisms behind it are too glaringly obvious. It reminds me of The Matrix - a lot of faux profundity mistaken for the real deal.
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