RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,809
Posts: 5,326,284
Members: 24,549
Currently online: 630
Newest member: kania

TrekToday headlines

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

View Poll Results: Grading
Excellent 121 71.18%
Above average 40 23.53%
Average 6 3.53%
Below average 3 1.76%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 29 2010, 08:41 PM   #406
JoeZhang
Vice Admiral
 
JoeZhang's Avatar
 
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

T'Baio wrote: View Post
They did feel some of the shock on the Goldeneye level...hence the avalanche. But it dissipates each level it goes down.

Saw it again last night, and while I still think it's a really entertaining movie that is more intelligent than most, I think it's greatest flaw is how literal it is. It's really not complicated, really is not a mind fuck in any way...it's just a well written story with well written convolutions. Those do threaten to strangle the picture at times, and I wonder if all the "brilliant, mind fuck" talk is merely a result of those overly complicated, deus ex machina convolutions. As in, it's so overly worked over and folded within itself, with faux, unnecessary risk creations such as limbo, that it just seems brilliant if you don't look past the facade.

Don't get me wrong, I love the film and think it's very well done and is one of the best movies of the year by far. But that's because it's a great science fiction-y, action oriented heist yarn with good characterization and an added level of depth that is really entertaining...not because it's brilliant or a mind fuck.
I feel pretty much the same, I saw it and left thinking "so what?" and forgot about it within 30 minutes.
JoeZhang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29 2010, 09:09 PM   #407
T'Baio
Admiral
 
T'Baio's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
It was just an enjoyable movie that the masses want to believe was a "mind fuck" because they are so fucking stupid they can't understand a movie that explains everything perfectly.
__________________
Making my first feature film, Synchronicity
www.synchronicityfilm.ca
IndieGoGo
On Facebook
T'Baio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29 2010, 10:42 PM   #408
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

T'Baio wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
It was just an enjoyable movie that the masses want to believe was a "mind fuck" because they are so fucking stupid they can't understand a movie that explains everything perfectly.
I have to agree with this. There was nothing about it that was hard to understand. People are either stupid, or they weren't paying attention.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 29 2010, 11:07 PM   #409
bigdaddy
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
T'Baio wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
It was just an enjoyable movie that the masses want to believe was a "mind fuck" because they are so fucking stupid they can't understand a movie that explains everything perfectly.
I have to agree with this. There was nothing about it that was hard to understand. People are either stupid, or they weren't paying attention.
It could be both, ADD and stupidity!

I'm so glad there are other smart people out there. The theater was full of 20-24 year olds and all of them seemed so fucking stupid.
__________________
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29 2010, 11:14 PM   #410
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

I consider the movie a "mind fuck" but perhaps my definition is different than what others are saying here.

I understood the movie perfectly but by "mind fuck" I go with the way it makes my mind spin with the way the movie treated different elements of the "dream world" and how it works, dreams within dreams, the time dilation, etc. I understood the movie just fine, but it got the creative pieces of my mind spinning like crazy which I consider to be "enough of a mind fuck for me."

__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 04:04 AM   #411
Ryan
Commodore
 
Location: Lincoln, NE
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

T'Baio wrote: View Post
I wonder if all the "brilliant, mind fuck" talk is merely a result of those overly complicated, deus ex machina convolutions.
When the hell does the film ever use a deus ex machina?
Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 04:12 AM   #412
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Ryan wrote: View Post
T'Baio wrote: View Post
I wonder if all the "brilliant, mind fuck" talk is merely a result of those overly complicated, deus ex machina convolutions.
When the hell does the film ever use a deus ex machina?
You could say the whole movie uses it. The way the dream-worlds work, the time dilation, hell the very dream devices themselves all seem to only occur/exsist because they need to for the plot to work.

Which is all fine and good because, well, they made it work. Deus ex machina isn't terrible if you use it right.

Using Seven's nano probes to solve Crisis of the Week? Poor use of deus ex machina.

Using an ill-defined and explained device to enter other people's dreams that have their own rules, laws, physics and way of working to tell an emotional story about a man letting go of a past regret and moving on to get to see his children again? Good use of deus ex machina.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 04:18 AM   #413
Rett Mikhal
Captain
 
Location: SDF-1
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Lindley wrote: View Post
There are some interesting ideas in the article. The possibility that Mal was right did occur to me independently, FWIW.
Ultimately I think the struggle to perceive reality is the message of the film. Similar to Hesienberg's theory of uncertainty when you get down to the molecular level with no point of origin to base movement, so do we have no basis for what we see except it's been like that as far back as we can remember.

Consider the real danger of Limbo: that you no longer trust reality and end up killing yourself trying to wake up. Since we have no base, no one can really be right or wrong.

I compared it to me asking you what you consider to be blue. You see a color in your mind and connect it, and know it to be blue, but how can you be 100% certain everyone sees colors exactly the same as you do? Maybe everyone sees things differently. Maybe some people see skin as purple. Maybe even black and white, the absence and absolute accumulation of all color, look different to other people as well. We'll never really know, because we can only see things through our eyes.

So the point of the film, for me, was that you can never really peel back all the layers of reality because you don't know where you begin and where it ends. An infinite loop of endless tangents.

Having said that, I found it to be a smart film, not a mind fuck. I would have to concur people who didn't pay attention in English class or otherwise never read a short story call it that to dodge having to actually think about it. I can confirm this based on the people I saw it with.
Rett Mikhal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 04:29 AM   #414
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

As I said in my post, it could also be people have a different idea on what a "mind fuck" is. For me a "mind fuck" is any movie that presents ideas in my mind that has my imagination stirring for a week afterwards on how well different aspects of the film were presented. Anything that can stir my mind and my imagination like this movie did is a "mind fuck" for me.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 05:24 AM   #415
Hyperspace05
Commodore
 
Hyperspace05's Avatar
 
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Ryan wrote: View Post
T'Baio wrote: View Post
I wonder if all the "brilliant, mind fuck" talk is merely a result of those overly complicated, deus ex machina convolutions.
When the hell does the film ever use a deus ex machina?
You could say the whole movie uses it. The way the dream-worlds work, the time dilation, hell the very dream devices themselves all seem to only occur/exsist because they need to for the plot to work.

Which is all fine and good because, well, they made it work. Deus ex machina isn't terrible if you use it right.

Using Seven's nano probes to solve Crisis of the Week? Poor use of deus ex machina.

Using an ill-defined and explained device to enter other people's dreams that have their own rules, laws, physics and way of working to tell an emotional story about a man letting go of a past regret and moving on to get to see his children again? Good use of deus ex machina.
Technically that is not "deus ex machina" at all. That term usually refers to plot-development that appear in the 3rd act, that have no setup whatsoever. It can only be described as an 'act of god/chance/luck' that saves the protagonist. There is IMO no such thing as a good "deus ex machina". It is always the result of bad screenwriting.

But in Inception, both the dream-sharing device and the time-dilation between dream levels is explained ahead of them impacting the plot. So it is not an example of "deus ex machina" at all.
Hyperspace05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 10:07 AM   #416
JacksonArcher
Vice Admiral
 
JacksonArcher's Avatar
 
Send a message via AIM to JacksonArcher
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

The extended ending for Inception.
JacksonArcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 11:18 AM   #417
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Ryan wrote: View Post
When the hell does the film ever use a deus ex machina?
You could say the whole movie uses it. The way the dream-worlds work, the time dilation, hell the very dream devices themselves all seem to only occur/exsist because they need to for the plot to work.

Which is all fine and good because, well, they made it work. Deus ex machina isn't terrible if you use it right.

Using Seven's nano probes to solve Crisis of the Week? Poor use of deus ex machina.

Using an ill-defined and explained device to enter other people's dreams that have their own rules, laws, physics and way of working to tell an emotional story about a man letting go of a past regret and moving on to get to see his children again? Good use of deus ex machina.
Technically that is not "deus ex machina" at all. That term usually refers to plot-development that appear in the 3rd act, that have no setup whatsoever. It can only be described as an 'act of god/chance/luck' that saves the protagonist. There is IMO no such thing as a good "deus ex machina". It is always the result of bad screenwriting.

But in Inception, both the dream-sharing device and the time-dilation between dream levels is explained ahead of them impacting the plot. So it is not an example of "deus ex machina" at all.
The. Very. First. Sentence. Of your link:

...is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, ability, or object.
I think this describes Seven's Nanoprobes or some new ability of Voyager's deflector dish perfectly.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 05:12 PM   #418
T'Baio
Admiral
 
T'Baio's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

My use of the term deus ex machina was probably the wrong term to use, I apologize.

I'm referring to things like limbo. For instance, we set up in the beginning of the film that one cannot die in the dream world. This is set up for multiple reasons, probably of which one is it's fairly common knowledge at this point that dying in your dreams = dead in real life is total bullshit. So he couldn't go there. It was also probably done because all the characters, according to the conceits of the plot, are needed to go through each level, because in each level, it's someone else who is dreaming, so they can't die.

So the part where Cobb says; "oh by the way, there's this whole limbo problem right now because of the drugs and we'll go there if we die in the dreams, sorry I didn't tell you..." is like this false construct intended merely to produce risk and raise the stakes. But it's a last minute addition that is kind of as much a screw of the audience as it was to the characters. It was a new rule added too late in the game. You could say it serves the plot because it allows Cobb to deal with his character arc, but you could have easily written that exact shit happening with how Cobb's "subconscious was breaking through into all the dreams," and Mal taking it all over in some way and Cobb dealing with her there. As a matter of fact, I think that would have been more interesting.

BTW, I'd also like to mention that Cobb going through Saito's palace, or whatever it was, at the beginning and using the silencer to kill the guards...the way he was catching the expelled shells was AWESOME!
__________________
Making my first feature film, Synchronicity
www.synchronicityfilm.ca
IndieGoGo
On Facebook
T'Baio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 06:55 PM   #419
Hyperspace05
Commodore
 
Hyperspace05's Avatar
 
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The. Very. First. Sentence. Of your link:

...is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, ability, or object.
I think this describes Seven's Nanoprobes or some new ability of Voyager's deflector dish perfectly.
I guess you missed that my reply was about Inception. You'know the topic of the thread?
Hyperspace05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30 2010, 06:58 PM   #420
Hyperspace05
Commodore
 
Hyperspace05's Avatar
 
Re: Inception (Christopher Nolan, Leonardo DiCaprio) Grading & Discuss

T'Baio, you are correct in that the 'limbo' concept is introduced late in the film - so it is borderline 'Deus ex machina'. But not quite - as it is discussed before entered.
Hyperspace05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
christopher nolan, inception

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.