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Old January 17 2010, 10:08 AM   #1
RegFan
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Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

Which one is better as written or as a story idea?

I personally like the Xindi arc better in both ways. It had a much more complex plot, which is a good thing. In DS9, they didn't have to find out why the Dominion was attacking them, they knew it from the start. In Enterprise, they didn't initially know why Earth was attacked and who were the Xindi. The Dominion war was just a war and there was nothing mysterious about it.
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Old January 17 2010, 01:09 PM   #2
Lor'Vela
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

No, I'm going with the DW.

I can't stand Superhero Archer. It was like his subordinates were made to look stupid in order to make him look good. It just seemed more brawn over brain with all the FX over quality storytelling. And not to mention those neuropressure sessions.

The DW was something that was built up to, and the Dominion were repeatedly made to look a real threat, something IMO the Xindi weren't. And then you've got villians like Weyoun and Dukat who are not even in the same league as err... Dolim and whoever that chief Insectoid was.
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Old January 17 2010, 05:00 PM   #3
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

While the Dominion War was a simpler idea I think Enterprise made the temporal war too convoluted by the end, plus I don't think you need a complex or hidden agenda to make something compelling or interesting. I guess the Xindi arc might be the more interesting idea given that it is an arranged war with shadowy backers from the future, though the execution I don't think came off to its full potential.

As with Lov'Vela I enjoyed that they built up to the war in DS9 and you got to see the antagonists more and they became more interesting characters. So in terms of what we got I think the Dominion War beats the Xindi arc hands down, though maybe it isn't fair given the Dominion War was given 2 seasons of conflict and 3 of buildup and the Xindi arc is only one season with an end that is determined. I guess you could say the same with DS9 but it would have more chance of ending with a Dominion victory over the Federation than the Xindi ever had of destroying Earth for good.
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Old January 17 2010, 10:21 PM   #4
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

Lets see if I remember this Xindi thing right.

They want to destroy Earth for poorly defined reasons. They were told that humans would destroy their homeworld in the future and they apparently believed it without question.

They test their Similar But Legally Distinct From the Death Star on Earth itself, which makes no sense storywise but the "plot" hinges on it, so they do it anyway.

The Enterprise crew dicks around in the old west for a while, then some guy from the future gives them a Xindi quarter, which is apparently enough to convince the majority of Xindi that humans won't destroy their homeworld after all.

I know what they were going for, and if the writers were third graders and I was their kind hearted teacher I'd give them all A's for effort. But they're not, and I'm not. For professionals, this level of storytelling is inexcusable.
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Old January 17 2010, 11:06 PM   #5
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

I love ENT and Capt Archer but the Dominion War was written and fleshed out much better than the Xindi Arc.
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Old January 17 2010, 11:45 PM   #6
Finn
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

Dominion War. The writing was great, not just the battles but the politics behind it (Starfleet, Romulan, Klingons (sort of), Orion Syndicate, and the Cardies).
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Old January 18 2010, 12:40 AM   #7
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

Jono wrote: View Post
... with shadowy backers from the future, ....
The race that prompted the Xindi to destroy Earth was not from the future, they could just see possible futures and determine the percentage chance that various futures would become reality. They saw that humans would unite races into a power that could battle them in the future and prevent them from converting the galaxy into a suitable environment for their race. Future guy realized what was going on and warned Archer. That was a nice twist since Archer was his enemy, but he had to choose the lesser of two evils.
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Old January 18 2010, 12:58 AM   #8
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

This is a tough one.

Positives:

DW - Much, much longer and spread over several seasons.
DW - Had a much bigger cast.
DW - More ships, more battles, and more special effects.
DW - Gave us intrigue with the Klingons and Cardasians.
DW - Wrapped up nicely.

Xin - Space anomalies were more interesting than the worm hole.
Xin - Showed us the true colors of the Andorians.
Xin - My favorite space battle.
Xin - A nice, focused arc with few distractions.

Negatives:

DW - First time they realized the Dominion was a threat they should have stayed away and barricaded the worm hole.
DW - Too many mirror universe, holodeck and God Ben episodes.

Xin - The test attack was an illogical move.
Xin - Wrapped up badly. They should have given them a hero's homecomming rather than space nazis.

I'll give the edge to DW. Both were really good but DW gave us more of a good thing.
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Old January 18 2010, 01:22 AM   #9
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

-Brett- wrote: View Post
Lets see if I remember this Xindi thing right.

They want to destroy Earth for poorly defined reasons. They were told that humans would destroy their homeworld in the future and they apparently believed it without question.
It was established that the Sphere Builders had helped them rebuild their civilization after it was destroyed and find a new home, and that they had become something like gods for the Xindi. Degra said he was raised to worship them and be grateful to them. Which made it a lot more believable.

Anyway, I like the Xindi storyline, but the Dominion War wins hands down, because it was far more complex, the villains were far more interesting and layered, and their POV and their motives much better explored. Compare Dukat or Weyoun to someone like Dolim, or the Founders to the Sphere Builders (a race that we barely got to know). DS9 also scores major points for not having alien races presented in a one-dimensional way. ENT Xindi arc nicely developed Degra and showed the differences between the Xindi races.. but only between the races. I find it annoying that we never saw a single Xindi Reptilian who disagreed with Dolim or who was presented in an even mildly positive or at least more layered way. And then I was also bothered by the fact that the races who looked more human-like (especially the Primates) were those to side with the humans and become 'good guys', while those who looked least human and 'ugliest' (by human standards) were the bad guys. OK, the Aquatics were even less humanoid, but I guess fewer people have issues with fish than with lizards and insects.
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Old January 18 2010, 03:03 AM   #10
The Wormhole
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

-Brett- wrote: View Post
Lets see if I remember this Xindi thing right.

They want to destroy Earth for poorly defined reasons. They were told that humans would destroy their homeworld in the future and they apparently believed it without question.

They test their Similar But Legally Distinct From the Death Star on Earth itself, which makes no sense storywise but the "plot" hinges on it, so they do it anyway.

The Enterprise crew dicks around in the old west for a while, then some guy from the future gives them a Xindi quarter, which is apparently enough to convince the majority of Xindi that humans won't destroy their homeworld after all.
You forgot about the ending where Captain Archer meets with an Alien Nazi.

Anyhoo, in regards to the original question: the Dominion War hands down.
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Old January 18 2010, 03:07 AM   #11
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
-Brett- wrote: View Post
Lets see if I remember this Xindi thing right.

They want to destroy Earth for poorly defined reasons. They were told that humans would destroy their homeworld in the future and they apparently believed it without question.

They test their Similar But Legally Distinct From the Death Star on Earth itself, which makes no sense storywise but the "plot" hinges on it, so they do it anyway.

The Enterprise crew dicks around in the old west for a while, then some guy from the future gives them a Xindi quarter, which is apparently enough to convince the majority of Xindi that humans won't destroy their homeworld after all.
You forgot about the ending where Captain Archer meets with an Alien Nazi.

Anyhoo, in regards to the original question: the Dominion War hands down.
Now to be fair, that's not really a part of the Xindi arc storyline, certainly not any more than Space Jesus Sisko wrestling with red eye demon-possessed Dukat in the Fire Caves is a part of the Dominion war arc. And this Niner thinks that the less said about the latter, the better.
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Old January 18 2010, 03:09 AM   #12
The Wormhole
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

DevilEyes wrote: View Post
Now to be fair, that's not really a part of the Xindi arc storyline,
Berman says it is. All his interviews in the summer of 2004 said the Storm Front two-parter would "provide closure to the Xindi story." Seriously, he actually said that.
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Old January 18 2010, 05:31 AM   #13
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

Another vote for the Dominion War.
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Old January 18 2010, 05:51 AM   #14
James Wright
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

The problem with the Dominion War stories is they could've included a brief appearance here and there of the Enterprise-D, especially since Worf left the ship to serve on DS9.
Eh, I think I'll go with the Xindi stories because the Enterprise crew had to prove to the Xindi that Humans were not a threat to them!

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Old January 18 2010, 06:14 AM   #15
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Re: Which one is better, the Dominion war or the Xindi arc?

James Wright wrote: View Post
The problem with the Dominion War stories is they could've included a brief appearance here and there of the Enterprise-D, especially since Worf left the ship to serve on DS9.
I assume you mean Enterprise-E, since D had been destroyed long before the Dominion war started.

Actually, they couldn't use it, because it "belonged" to Paramount, which forbade the TV shows from using the "movie ships". http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=909184&postcount=32

James Wright wrote: View Post
Eh, I think I'll go with the Xindi stories because the Enterprise crew had to prove to the Xindi that Humans were not a threat to them!
Wouldn't have worked on DS9, since the Founders distrusted the Solids and didn't give a damn what they thought, and it's not like they were misinformed by another party and you just needed to present them with evidence.

Although at the end, that's what Odo hoped to achieve in time in the Great Link, by allowing the other Founders to feel the love and friendship he had with "Solids".
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