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Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old August 10 2010, 05:21 AM   #61
starsuperion
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

The_Architect wrote: View Post
starsuperion wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I assume that you intend on doing a historical technical perspective of Gallifreyan technology since you've introduced us to these ships from the Great Vampire Wars. I'll admit that I'm not an expert on all of Who history. I am vaguely aware of pre-Rassilon time before Omega helped found Time Lord society. You should really attempt to pitch the Beeb to do a proper technical manual/companion book for the series. I know that I'd buy it in an instant.
Yeah, What I may end up doing is a technical compendium of the Time Lords themselves..

from the early Vampire Wars days to the most advanced Tardises used during the time war..this would be a unique fan project, and would limit my work to those specific areas..which I am okay with, however for the purposes of this particular thread, I intend to finish the Bowships designs and then move on into other races for fun..

the Tardis Technical Manual I am doing may just end up being part of the Compendium and get integrated into that book..

regardless of that, I woul love to see a technical companion released by the BBC, but I rather think they would be set against such things, since they delight in mystery..and as most Whovian's state quite frequently, that it is about the story and not the tech and that those like myself who thrive on such things, well, we are just nutters!

I would say you are in good company. If not for nutters like you and I there would be no film to make their precious stories immortal on.



by the way I just posted this and want to hear your opinions on how it might effect the schematics of a tardis

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9552.new#new


it is essentially a way of explaining how something could be "bigger" on the inside than the outside by using a method of matter compression (forcing an amount of matter to exist on less space)

so that the inside would not actually have to be smaller on the inside, just the space inside work differently due to the generators so that more matter (air people equipment) could exist in there and that vibrational control of those compression generators could cause something to litterally vibrate from one location (in all 4 dimensional directions) to another instantly almost. (thus the whole demat remat process too)
That is an interesting take on the phenomenon..

what I derived at was a bit different.. you see, in particle physics, there are rips in the universe..little holes, which lead to other smaller pocket universes.. the Tardis actually creates it's own pocket universe, or dimension..

I have the particulars all worked out and written up in the how a tardis get's built section of the upcoming manual.. needless to say,

the main section of a tardis is a skeletal structure built by the time lord engineers.. once the massive skeletal structure is built, the central nervous system and engines are constructed.. the block map transfer of the eye of harmony is done, so the source is copied into the ship's main cloister section and then the rooms of the ship are "grown" through energy to matter conversion, molecule by molecule..the ship is then ready for use.. the interior is fixed, the rooms in which the doctor uses for travel are in different areas all over the ship... what we see is a console room in one area, and then in a different seasons he has migrated to a separate room and made a console section for himself.. which is why the ship's decks and sections of hallway are different..he can change the theme of the ship's interior in any section he wishes, which are empty.. once constructed, those older sections remain..

however, before I finish my work on the time lord compendium, I need to read and reread your idea.. it is most interesting...
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Old August 10 2010, 03:27 PM   #62
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

glad I could be of assistance. do have a go at the idea. (questions on how and why, as well as any criticisms based on scientific theories or even experimental data you might have encountered. )
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Old August 10 2010, 06:41 PM   #63
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

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glad I could be of assistance. do have a go at the idea. (questions on how and why, as well as any criticisms based on scientific theories or even experimental data you might have encountered. )

Actually I have a strange theory of my own which I am exploring.. basically think of the universe and space-time as a tissue... if the central power source needed to produce a time capsule is the center of a black hole, then the block math transfer of the eye of harmony (the center of the black hole, is what is at the core of the Tardis) would be needed to curve space into a central bubble of space-time therby creating a seperate Dimension, in the science fiction definition of the word...

think if it like this.. the tissue is space time, your hand cupped into a circle.. or like a cup or glass.. now lay the tissue over the hand and rest it on it.. the tissue is space and time, and your other hand index finger tip is the block transfered eye of harmony copy.. as you press your finger into the tissue and it falls through your hand it forms a bubble of sorts.. a time-space bubble outside of reality.. the only link is the gateway, which around has been constructed a ship.. most of which exists in the bubble, which completely cuts off a section of space time from the rest of the universe..this is then a separate dimension in which the interior is larger then the exterior
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Old August 10 2010, 09:14 PM   #64
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

the big problem I see with this is that you would have to either move the entire bubble or you would have to move the interior (rearrange) of the ship to have the exit appear in different locations. so it would end up appearing in different locations internally as well as externally.

*just a thought as I am sure there is either an explanation on how this could work or a work around for certain.*
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Old August 10 2010, 10:11 PM   #65
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

The_Architect wrote: View Post
the big problem I see with this is that you would have to either move the entire bubble or you would have to move the interior (rearrange) of the ship to have the exit appear in different locations. so it would end up appearing in different locations internally as well as externally.

*just a thought as I am sure there is either an explanation on how this could work or a work around for certain.*
well you are right to a certain extent.. you see since that particular portion of space time has been shut off from reality, it would be necessary to have the gateway in place always.. however, because the gateway is relative to the entire time capsule or bubble of space time, then it can exist in other areas of the ship.. I.E. other tardis control rooms.. at least 1 gateway must be open at all times to tether that pocket of space time to this reality..but only 1 access to the construct in our reality is allowed..this is probably done by powering down control rooms which are not in use, as the doctor mentioned to river song in the big bang.. a fail safe precaution to keep the right access to the right area..

this makes sense when you consider cetain aspects.. like the tardis getting shrunk in logopolis.. the block math transfer used to create the artificial eye of harmony in the cloister room of the tardis was out of whack which put the spacial dimensions of the pocket of space time out of whack and it began to collapse in on itself..

this is also why, the pocket of space time can be made plyable to access a time vortex, much like opening up a rift within it's own reality to a wormhole and then teleporting itself inside, and then using it's massive engies to move through that vortex through affected space time..since th3e4 true ship exists in it's own reality, it can access space time differently from us, seeing as it is outside normal space-time..

it's like a giant bubble hanging onto the sides of ground while through the center of it is a little stream of water.. it floats up and down the stream using the water, but remains dry inside since it is not truly in the water.. ..

the water would be the time vortex..or also subspace
the ground is reality our universe..

the bubble is the time capsule ..
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Old August 14 2010, 10:18 PM   #66
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Here are some (crappy) 3D renderings I have done, novice as I am in that media.. of what the tardis should look like in it's own Dimension..

Had I skillz, I could have added some cool mesh skins over the structure, but as I said. I am pretty much a novice at this..

so anyhow.. Here is what you are looking at:

Tardis Side view:








Note: here we see almost the core structure of the Tardis, still obscured by the dynamorphic generator ports, and round room deck sections.. remember, the Tardis has corridors and stairs and levels, which just rooms made from circular orbs and or twisted hallways do not convey.. also if.. the Tardis were dimensionally linked to other rooms, then corridors would not be in the ship.. however we know from the show, corridors are indeed a part of the ship itself.. so it makes sense the tardis rooms would be in large deck levels..

Black and White


Tardis Top View:


Communications and scanners


Note:

the coral of the Tardis is actually a manifestation of the fluid link system and the dynamorphic generators crystals.. this coral like subsystem runs throughout the Tardis carrying power through it's fluid links to vital systems and maintains the ship's structure..in many cases over growth of the coral can manifest itself into support columns and other unique and helpful structures..provided a source of fluid link energy mixture is nearby..cutoff from this fluid link system and network, the coral structures crumble very easily as seen when the 10th doctor's control room exploded from the excessive radiation of his regeneration, radiation he absorbed from a nuclear bolt.. the coral columns in his console room were cutoff from the fluid links during the explosion and quickly crumbled..



Time Vortex Drive:


Bottom view close up:


the dynamorphic generators are actually massive crystals connected to a power structure, they soak up the Rift energy particles and fuel the ship, these massive crystal structures protrude from the side of the Tardis and are shielded, but can be opened up to absorb energy and refuel the Tardis power cells, which can be done like in the episode, Utopia..this shielding is not energy as so much as it is a liquid like membrane, which allows the energy to come in from a rift or the universe, and yet not release structural integrity..

had I skill these blue sections would look like water or liquid reflections which resembled the stargate when active.. sorry guys..

the shield is generated by the massive support structure surrounding the crystals..the blue you see is the liquid shield itself.. just accentuated for your view..it pulls in massive amounts of energy which is absorbed by the crystal generators near the middle section of the ship..

Below:

here is the Tardis as it expands it's rooms and decks.. whole sections of rooms and levels are contained in the expansions..these expansions are grown by molecular construction..



Before a Tardis is commissioned and assigned to an operator, it is grown to full capacity, which is also necessary as to test the full extent of the power output and make sure it meets the program standards of the time lord engineers.. time lord engineers build their engines and power structures in 3 dimensional models, which are then assembled/grown in the alternate dimension as part of the Tardis architectural program..the doctor's program is malfunctioning, and is the reason parts of the ship have begun to look like junk thrown together.. their original structural design was corrupted data..what was once an intricate switch, is now a bull horn or a bicycle rotor..

these ships are very much the sum of the computer from which they are constructed, and the programs which they are manifest from..back up systems allow the Tardis to pull other objects in to fill the role needed, and the architectural program is just the overlay.. a constructed central core is necessary, incase of corrupted data, the central structure of the Tardis will remain in tact, and is not part of that program, but a real working system.





In later war tardises, type 91 and onward, these room structures were replaced by massive missile silos and many other weaponry for use during the time war.







Note: when a Tardis jettisons it's rooms, a flash of energy is produced, as they are instantly transformed into their basic cold plasma form and immediately thrust into the time vortex itself, the added result is a massive energy boost and propulsion that can liberate a stuck tardis from a Gravitational eddy.





Full Grown Tardis Top:




Note:

the lower levels of the Tardis are located below the Dynamorphic generator power ports (blue shields in the center), and are sometimes referred to as the Tardis bowels.. these lower decks are closer to the cloister room and can give off a sense of euphoria..



here is a size comparison with the Galaxy Class Starship enterprise..




like I said, it isn't very detailed but you get the general Idea..

now the ship is complete and it shows a fundamental Time Lord design.. it is circular and yet a hexagon... the shape of the outside of the ship is a hexagon, while being made up of circular structures, and in the center we have the main sensors and communications and teleport hardware while on the bottom is the main engine which propels the tardis through space and time in the vortex..

told you guys I have been working on this project for awhile.. now the final lined art will be of this design.. it was difficult to achieve, but very satisfying overall, cause it conveys everything that A Tardis should require..if some magnificent person who does CGI 3D art wants to take a crack at this and making it look more realistic and machine like, then be my guest.. that would make me extremely happy..

cough*** cough*** Drex Files***cough
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/

how is the ship constructed.. well the time lord engineers build the central column first, then they gown the crystal generators, and they then construct the rooms around them.. once the central structure and engines are complete the rest of the ship is grown around the central structure through the matter construction architectural program, which is kinda like the food replicators on the Enterprise D in STNG. hence the majority of the Tardis is grown, not built..

Last edited by starsuperion; August 15 2010 at 01:51 AM.
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Old August 15 2010, 01:16 AM   #67
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

sorry forgot to upload this first.. this is the central section the birth of the tardis if you will..

The Central Core Structure: The Only part of the Tardis constructed not Grown within the Vortex.
the Time Lord Engineers would use their massive shipyards to construct a carbon fiber composite that could withstand the immense dimensional forces within the time vortex, this massive construct, would house the main cloister core and computer core, as well as the default basic control console, and any other vital systems that needed to be constructed before entry into the artificial dimension. while most of the tardis ship was an engineering program, the central construct had to be real and tangible if the rest of the programs were corrupted and lost, the central structure would at least remain intact..

for this reason the time lords would build this central massive core construct, and then move it into the artificial reality, while adding through block math transfer, an exact copy of the eye of harmony from Gallifrey at it's central cloister core. the central cloister core is located at the base of the umbilicus tower, a direct power and core link of the Tardis ship, much like a human spinal cord..this umbilicus is what feeds the energy captured from the cloister room to the rest of the ship, in addition to the energy derived from the dynamorphic generators..

we see surrounding the umbilicus is a structure of what looks to be Victorian iron works, which is actually carbon fiber composite, this is seen throughout much of the Tardis as the default structural workings, and is what exists before each room is constructed using the architectural configuration program.

Core Structure Top:




Core Structure side:





the massive structure arms which hang down from the top of the tardis act as reinforcement for the core from the tremendous dimensional forces encountered while traveling through the time vortex.. the structure is made from the same carbon fiber as the rest of the ship materials and is grown in massive tardis ship yards, then assembled at the central dimensional hub station..





Core Structure bottom:






okay well as you can see, I pretty much suck at 3D, but it did get well to get what was rolling around in my noggin out so you can see it tangible for the first time..

Last edited by starsuperion; August 15 2010 at 10:05 PM.
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Old August 15 2010, 02:04 AM   #68
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Absolutely great. Although the gridlike structures on the core do stand out by not matching the design ethic.

I would probably go with a carbon nanotube like structure:
http://www.siemens.com/innovation/en...c_berkeley.htm
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Old August 15 2010, 02:10 AM   #69
starsuperion
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Sean_McCormick wrote: View Post
Absolutely great. Although the gridlike structures on the core do stand out by not matching the design ethic.

I would probably go with a carbon nanotube like structure:
http://www.siemens.com/innovation/en...c_berkeley.htm

well actually the massive arm structures which you see in no detail what so ever are supposed to look as if they are an offshoot of the McGann Tardis..

credit for this image goes to poser
http://www.sharecg.com/v/41428/Poser...TARDIS-Console
now the carbon nano tubing you linked to is actually what you would see on a molecular or microscopic level..should you take the metal arms under a microscope..

I wish I had some help on this design by someone with excellent 3D skills, you guys would be blown away..seriously..if I could make my ship roughs look half as good as the render above that poser did, you would see some cool stuff..including the bowships..
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Old August 15 2010, 04:48 AM   #70
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Sean_McCormick wrote: View Post
Absolutely great. Although the gridlike structures on the core do stand out by not matching the design ethic.

I would probably go with a carbon nanotube like structure:
http://www.siemens.com/innovation/en...c_berkeley.htm

you know what though sean, I think I may just try to redo this in line art, since I basically have a "go by" that I can use as inspiration..the final lined art may look a lot differently from this 3D render..I will leave the 3D stuff up to better minded and skilled people..

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE..this is basically the 3D image reworked to show what I could not articulate in that medium..
the Victorian detailed work of the ship..


HERE WE SEE THE THAT THE MCGANN CONSOLE IS THE MAIN VERSION BUILT WITHIN THE STRUCTURE OF THE SHIP..

I am going to refine this design.. basically you guys can get the idea of what I am talking about for now.. I hope to make a detailed schematic shortly to show off till then, thanks for checking this out..

the fluid links master conduit is connected to the dynamorphic generator rooms, and as time goes by that conduit is covered by the coral we see in various parts of the Tardis.

Last edited by starsuperion; August 15 2010 at 07:26 PM.
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Old August 15 2010, 01:00 PM   #71
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Ah! I didn't make the 1996-movie connection. Tha again evolved drawing of the core structure looks awesome.

This promises to be really great when finished. :top:
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Old August 15 2010, 02:36 PM   #72
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Sean_McCormick wrote: View Post
Ah! I didn't make the 1996-movie connection. Tha again evolved drawing of the core structure looks awesome.

This promises to be really great when finished. :top:
thanks Sean, I updated that image, please check out the new one..

I am glad you like it.. the original bulky 3D image is just to get the basics out of what I think the Tardis should be.
Yeah, as far as I have read, and in some novelizations of the Tardis ship, the McGann console is pretty much the original constructed console.. it was the first one used to control the ship before the rest of it was constructed, and or grown..

the Victorian Iron work was mention many times as being the basic construct of the Tardis and the basic frame work of what the Tardis rooms grow from..

bare in mind that this does not take into account any coral aspects as given in the new series, but, I have my own theory which stipulates that the coral is a manifestation of the fluid links, and is connected to them, and the dynamorphic generators, which are massive crystals which act like batteries which power the Tardis in addition to the cloister core..

anyhow..

On a lighter note, it suddenly occurred to me that the Tardis design in 3D is so basic enough, that it can be reproduced in LEGOS! hahahahahahaha

Pretty cool!

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Old August 16 2010, 08:20 AM   #73
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

While I doubt they would want to add too much new information about The Doctor or the TARDIS, it would be interesting to see the 'bigger on the inside'-thing adressed within a story. Like maybe the ship itself (other than the door) exists in an alternate universe and the interior grows bigger as it gets older filling up the space of that universe. When the Doctor first borrowed/stole it the interior had the square footage of a parking lot, and then a shopping center, and then a small town, and then very LARGE small town. By now its as big as Hong Kong inside. The story I'd want to see would involve aliens punching a hole into the "TARDIS-universe" and trying to break inside the ship through the hull.
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Old August 16 2010, 09:52 AM   #74
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Not sure I like the 3D modeling as much as the more traditional schematic page...it's not your work I've just never been fond of that medium. I wish I could read the text without having to copy and paste it into a document.
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Old August 16 2010, 01:54 PM   #75
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Re: The Doctor Who Schematics Thread

Sabataage wrote: View Post
While I doubt they would want to add too much new information about The Doctor or the TARDIS, it would be interesting to see the 'bigger on the inside'-thing adressed within a story.
I certainly agree, it would atleast give those of us a place to start from to do art based on the Tardis.. but I am doing it on my own anyway..still to see the ship explained in an episode would make me very happy and probably would be the best and most watched episode ever.. a full Tardis tour..or the companions lost in the Tardis..

Sabataage wrote:
Like maybe the ship itself (other than the door) exists in an alternate universe and the interior grows bigger as it gets older filling up the space of that universe.
Well sort of.. you see I think that it happens a bit differently.. the Tardis is first constructed in a ship yard, but just the basic frame work, once the block math transfer of the eye of harmony is done, the structure is used to pull a section of space time into a time capsule, which separates the structure from normal space-time..

Basically the center of the black hole is copied in the Tardis structure..in the cloister room, and then used to create at first what looks like a mini black hole, except while bending space inward, it seals itself in a bubble..thereby creating it's own dimension outside of space and time.. this is probably done by using another block math transfer copy to quell the gravitational forces and seal the breach in it's own pocket of reality.. leaving a small section which is tied to this reality via a constructed gateway tied to the ship itself.. this gateway or breach is static and sealed as a single doorway or box in this reality, but in the separate dimension, it can be accessed from any part of the ship, as long as the proper matching constructed doorway is available and power running to it..

basically the opening (hole in our reality) is built into the outer door as part of it's molecular structure..and as such can not be separated..this is like taking water (the hole into the dimension), and creating a door out of that water, but also adding concrete mix (the cold plasma composite shell) to it..the water is still there, but the concrete mix makes it permanent and tangible (police box)..

Once inside that reality, the Tardis is then fully grown according to the computer structural programs, and then a Time lord is assigned..

Sabataage wrote:
When the Doctor first borrowed/stole it the interior had the square footage of a parking lot, and then a shopping center, and then a small town, and then very LARGE small town. By now its as big as Hong Kong inside.
See here I think that the time lords built their Tardises as huge, but not so massive as to have a small city inside.. rather large enough to house a small army of thousands of explorers and scientists, and historians.. and they used the vast size of the Tardis to explore and chronicle civilizations from their beginnings to the present day..(being barred from future travel by rassilon and subsequent presidents). What I believe is that the ship is highly customizable to aide them in their studies and to also provide any aesthetics those on the ship would like.. hence the architectural configuration program (Castrovalva)

But I do not think that the Tardis has grown over the years by itself, and has gotten as big as a city..I just can't see why the Time Lords would want a ship that could get that big, and for what reason?? it seems more logical and more in line with the classic school of thought that the ship would yes, indeed be massive, much larger then anything built by starfleet, except maybe a massive starbase space station.. but that the ship could be expanded if needed..but remains mostly a standard size..

we know that later models were smaller then the type 40, no doubt because the time lords began to stop exploring the galaxy cause they already gained the knowledge they desired..and in the time war, the smaller Tardises were used to fight, not needing extra space to use for scientific purposes.. the doctor's tardis is a science vessel..

The Tardis cloister core is also the reason for the necessary block math transfer equations pertaining to the scale and dimenisonal size of our universe.. which are fed into the main computer banks.. if these equations are off, or the Tardis control console is accessing our universe with this circuit missing, the interior would look smaller then the outside world. (Time meddler and Logopolis) but say you were in the Tardis and walked outside super small, you would then grow to your proper size instantly (carnival of monsters) the cloister core is what maintains the balance of scale between the two dimensions, which are controlled by the main computer and the control console's data readings being fed to the computer via it's scans..the universe expands and shrinks, so as the doorway opens and closes to the Tardis, it is necessary to match the scale to the interior..if you were outside the Tardis while the interior is unscaled, (time meddler) you would be too large to enter the ship, and stuck without the ability to repair the circuit, which would need another tardis..

Sabataage wrote:
The story I'd want to see would involve aliens punching a hole into the "TARDIS-universe" and trying to break inside the ship through the hull.

I would love to see that as an episode as well..

There is a cool comic story in the classic comic series called the stockbridge horror, it involves an intruder in the Tardis, and another comic story which has the 6th doctor, peri and frobisher lost in the Tardis with an intruder following them.. it is a very revealing comic cause it shows off some aspects of the Tardis that I think make sense for the ship..

example: in that comic, the doctor explains to frobisher that the Tardis has a whole massive computer memory section which houses what seem to be holodecks which record an entire planet and replicate it for exploring without the dangers of going outside and interfering in that planets history.. which leads me to believe that the Tardises were used to visit other worlds, and once there, they scanned the planet, and then recorded it's progress throughout time to the present day time, and then the holodeck memory bank rooms were created to allow those scientists to visit their world and explore what they just saw..it also stated in the comic that these memory banks were at the top floors of the tardis, which makes sense.. cause the cloister room is in the bowels of the ship, and it might make the data corrupt from the gravitational forces housed there..

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Not sure I like the 3D modeling as much as the more traditional schematic page...it's not your work I've just never been fond of that medium.
You and me both brother, it has been difficult to master, and not very satisfying unless you understand what you are doing.. however, I do like the 3D aspect cause it looks like a real object as apposed to a paper line art drawing..but then again, I lke the line art as well.. LOL

Admiral_Young wrote:
I wish I could read the text without having to copy and paste it into a document.
Huh? What text? the 3D art stuff? or the line art schematic? not sure what you mean...

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